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📍  Welcome back to another episode of The 200% Marriage podcast with Meredith and Craig. We've been reading our book, The 200% Marriage: Your Winning Playbook to Be an Unstoppable Team. This is episode or chapter 22, and we're each reading the chapters that we wrote, and I happen to read chapter 22, so I'm gonna kick it off.

Got anything to say?

Nope. All you. Let's go.

Chapter 22: Conflict Without Combat. "Don't raise your voice, improve your argument." Desmond Tutu. You are married to another human being. You will have conflict with them from time to time. That's just the way it is. When you, on your own journey through life, join forces with another human being on their journey, conflict is inevitable.

Please understand, it will happen. Here's the cool part Not only is it completely normal, but it's actually a good sign for your relationship. Now, you may be remembering back to a particular conflict you had with your teammate and muttering under your breath, "What the fuck is this guy talking about?"

Because that certainly didn't seem like it was a good thing. Let me explain. Conflict means you're both being yourselves. You're showing up fully in your marriage. One of you isn't changing who you are to appease the other person. That means you both feel safe enough to be yourselves, to advocate for what you want in your relationship.

That's healthy. Let's celebrate that. Give yourself and your teammate a high five. That was a high five for us. The other totally awesome thing about conflict, besides being a huge green flag, is that conflict is an opportunity to deepen your bond and get closer. It gives you the chance to show up for each other, to compromise, to build trust, to deepen respect, to learn about each other, and to grow together, if it's done productively.

That's a big if. Conflict has to be done productively. So let's walk through how to do it productively. We find it helpful to think of conflict in three parts. One, pre-conflict, the ground rules you set ahead of time. Two, the conflict itself, how to handle the actual conversation.

And three, post-conflict, following up and preventing it from happening again. Part one, pre-conflict. Having ground rules ready to lean on is a game changer when navigating conflict. The goal is to set your team up for success. First, lean on your frame. Remember the team frame and your five rules to be an unstoppable team?

Go back to the beginning of part four if you need a little refresher. It's all about the team, the team, the team. You are a team. You and your spouse are teammates. Holding that frame close is key to moving through conflict smoothly.

It's essential to establish structure in advance, in other words, before the conflict hits. During conflict is definitely not the time to roll out new rules, because when emotions are high, you aren't at your best. Remember, high emotion equals low intelligence. Your rules of engagement must already be in place, and the teammate frame must be at the center of everything.

Here's where couples often stumble. During conflict, many people try to lawyer each other Like they're auditioning for a role in their favorite courtroom drama. But if you're trying to win, you're actually trying to make your teammate lose. And if your teammate loses and you're on the same team, that means you lose too.

If you're playing a win-lose game in your marriage, the truth is you will always lose in the long run. That's a terrible way to build a marriage. The only way to truly win is to get back on the same team and find a solution together. So yes, conflict requires rules of engagement, and here are the big three: One, no name-calling.

This may seem like a no-brainer, but you'd be surprised how many people resort to name-calling in the heat of battle. Don't do it, ever. You want to call them sweetie, fine. You want to call them asshole, bite your tongue, even if they might sort of, a little, kinda be acting like one. It literally never helps.

Name-calling escalates conflict, which if you're paying attention, you know is the opposite of what we're trying to accomplish here. Two, no yelling. Yelling also escalates the conflict. It usually happens when someone feels unheard, but the louder you get, the less likely the other person is to listen.

So instead of feeling heard, you make things worse. Set the rule now. We do not yell at each other under any circumstances. Three, vulnerabilities are off limits. If you and your teammate have shared your deepest fears and struggles, and if you're doing it right, you have, those are never to be used as weapons in a conflict.

Nothing destroys trust faster than using vulnerabilities as grenades in an argument. Don't go there, ever. Really, all of this boils down to one thing, respect. Respect is the foundation of your relationship. Without it, the team is in trouble. The lesson we all learned in kindergarten remains undefeated.

Treat others the way you wanna be treated. You don't wanna be called names, yelled at, or have your insecurities weaponized against you, so don't do it to your teammate. To sum it up, set the rules to always be a team, focus on team solutions, not personal wins, and don't be an asshole. That about covers it.

On to part two. Part two, the conflict. Earlier, we mentioned the big three, money, parenting, and the thing that leads to parenting, yep, you got it, or at least I hope you got it, sex. Money, parenting, and sex together are known as the big three because they're the top three sources of conflict in marriage.

Take our word for it, or Google it. This is a bibliography-free zone. From our interactions and work with thousands of couples, we also add a fourth, in-laws and family dynamics. The amount of conflict that arises over in-laws overstepping or time spent with one family over another is astounding, so really, the big three just became the big four.

Chances are your conflict lands in one of these four buckets, money, parenting, sex, or extended family bullshit. Knowing this helps for a couple reasons. First, you know that you're not alone. It's normal. And second, If you can improve in these areas, you'll eliminate the vast majority of recurring conflicts.

Now, here are five strategies to handle conflict productively. One, use I statements. Speak from your perspective and how it reflects your experience. Avoid speaking for others or bringing others into your team's business. Stick with how you feel. Speak your truth.

Two, be specific. Ditch absolutes like always and never. Instead of, "You never help out with the kids at bedtime," try, "I've done bedtime four nights in a row and I'm exhausted. Can you take over tonight?"

Three, listen to understand. There is a difference between listening to understand and listening to respond. Most people, most of the time, are listening to respond.

Remember, your side is only one side of the conflict, and you must speak your truth. What's equally essential is that you give your teammate the same courtesy to speak their truth. Listen to understand where they're coming from, to understand their perspective. Empathy is your friend.

Four, find the seed of agreement. Even in significant conflicts, there's something you can both agree on, however small. Maybe it's just we don't wanna fight anymore. Start there to get back on the same side. That is the seed from which everything else will grow. Build from that seed. It's essential to get back on the same side of the table as soon as possible.

Five, focus on the solution. You get more of what you focus on. Get aligned on the problem, then shift your focus to solution-seeking mode. And remember, it's not your solution, it's not their solution, it's the team's solution. The solution is always based on what's best for the team. So let's bring it all together with some examples.

Example one. You're a dipshit. You're always gone. You're never home. I always have to take care of the kids all by myself, and I never get any help from you. Even though you're always working, we never have any money for anything. And when you're home, you're constantly pooping. I don't care what you have to say because I've never met anyone who's more full of shit than you.

In case it was not obvious, this is an example of unhealthy conflict. Example two. I appreciate that you're working hard to provide for us, and I'm really proud of all the work you're putting in to create a better financial future for us. I need you to know that I'm really struggling. I feel overwhelmed and exhausted.

This week has been really hard getting three kids fed and down for bed the last four nights. I could really use your help. I need to recharge. Could you come home early tonight and do bedtime with the kids so that I can get a little time for myself? Can you feel the difference? Example one comes out of the gates hot.

They set the whole thing up for failure from the jump with name-calling. They use absolutes with no focus on the solution, plus they call their teammate out for their pooping habits. Is nothing sacred? This whole conversation was a shit show, pun very much intended.

Example two takes a different approach. No name-calling. They make their teammate feel seen and respected. They use specific examples while acknowledging their own feelings and needs, and they focus on the solution. They ask a question to engage their teammate in the conversation to hear their perspective.

You can feel the respect. The emotion stays low. They are clearly on the same team working together to find a solution for the team, plus no poop shaming. Be more like example two. This is how we grow through conflict.

Part three: post-conflict. This stage is a choose your own adventure. You'll either nail it or mess up somewhere in the first two parts.

Honestly, you'll probably mess up more than you nail it, especially in the early days of building some of these new relationship muscles. No shame. Messing up is all part of the learning process. If you did nail it, post-conflict is about following through. Do what you said you'd do.

Using our example above, if you agreed to come home early to get the kids fed and put to bed the next night, make sure you do it. Your words reflect who you want to be. Your actions reflect who you actually are. Who are you? Are you someone who follows through on their commitments? Be that person.

Following through builds massive trust. If you messed up in parts one or two, you have two choices. You can stay stuck in conflict, not ideal, or you can own your part and repair it. Repairing requires taking responsibility for your part and apologizing for it sincerely.

Simple, but not necessarily easy. It's simple because it's not complicated. Make a mistake, own it, apologize for it. It's not rocket science. But don't mistake simple for easy. Apologizing isn't easy. If you have trouble with it, you're not alone. It's totally normal. Think about it. Since we were kids, we were taught that being wrong is bad.

Apologizing means admitting you're wrong. Apologizing is weak. So if you have a hard time apologizing, it's likely you've been that way since you were a kid. Our nephews are seven and nine, and they would rather chew off their own right arm than admit they were wrong and apologize, especially to each other.

Mer has a great story about this that she wants to jump in and tell

babysitting my cousin. She was probably around nine years old. Her dad had taken her brother to watch a basketball game, and she thought it should have been her turn to go with Dad to watch the basketball game. So she was less than thrilled to be stuck at home with me. I made her dinner, but she wasn't eating it.

I tried to convince her to eat. She was having none of it. She threw a tantrum, the likes of which I'd never witnessed before in real life. She was crying under the table, pounding the floor with her arms and legs like a cartoon character's hissy fit. She was inconsolable. I tried explaining to her that I understood why she was mad at her dad, and also that it wasn't cool to take it out on me.

I was just trying to have a fun movie night and treat night with her, but she was being pretty mean to me, and if she apologized to me for how she was behaving, we could have a good time, and she could pick the movie.

Eventually, she quieted down and left the room. I assumed there would be no apology, but I was grateful she seemed to have at least tired herself out, and hopefully the rest of the evening would be less eventful. I was ready to take the win. A few minutes later, she came back into the kitchen with a sticky note stuck to her mouth that read, "I am sorry."

I tried really hard not to laugh. I was proud of her for apologizing in her own way. I also found it very interesting that she couldn't bring herself to actually say the words out loud. It's such a good example of how hard it can be to admit wrong and apologize. She was just a kid, but she was conditioned, like most of us, to believe being wrong is bad.

And even though she knew she was wrong, she couldn't bring herself to say the words, so she apologized the best she could. She was nine. Imagine how infinitely harder it feels to own your shit and apologize When you tack on 30 or more years of that same conditioning.

Back to Craig

We'll cut the kid some slack because she was nine. That apology coming from a grown-up? Bullshit. It's not just Mer's cousin, though. Most people don't do apologies very well. They don't know how. I know I was never taught it. My lesson went as far as say you're sorry. Here's a quick tutorial so you and your teammate don't have any more bullshit apologies.

Step one: express remorse. You did it. You probably didn't mean to do it, but it still hurt them, so acknowledge that you feel bad about hurting them, use heartfelt language, and be sincere.

Step two: take responsibility. We covered this. Having a 200% marriage is about taking full responsibility for everything in your marriage. Nothing new here. Acknowledge the part you played, no excuses, no blaming, own it. Quick side rant, and never use the word but in an apology. We've referenced big buts several times, so you know how we feel about them.

We like them, usually. Not here. Absolutely no buts. For example, "I'm sorry, but you made me angry." The but literally invalidates every word you said that came before it. Remove all buts from your apology. While we're on the topic, remove all ifs too. For example, "I'm sorry if you feel hurt." It doesn't take any responsibility when you add an if to your apology.

If you want a real stinker of an apology, combine them. "I'm sorry if you feel hurt, but you made me so angry." Garbage apology. End of rant.

Step three: make it right. Offer to make amends. Be open to hearing what they need from you to rebuild trust. Follow through on what you agree to do.

Step four: don't do it again.

Nothing kills trust faster than repeating the same behavior. Learn, adapt, improve. The flip side of apologizing is forgiving. Mer chit-chatted with you about forgiveness in Chapter 13, so I'll just add this little tidbit. When your teammate apologizes sincerely, do your very best to forgive them quickly so that you can move forward together.

Conflict is inevitable. Combat is a choice. If you remind yourself that marriage is a team sport and aim to strengthen your team through each conflict, it won't feel like combat. Instead, you'll grow, build trust, and deepen your bond every time You show up for each other.

Now that we're through the conflict, it's time to reconnect you with Mer

That was chapter 22

That was chapter 22, MacKay. Conflict without combat.

That chapter I think might be the most tactical chapter of the entire book.

Yeah, I agree. There's a lot of do this, don't do that. Mm-hmm. A lot of steps.

Mm-hmm.

It's also one of the ones that I think, um- historically, a lot of people struggle with.

Like-

Yes ...

like they just avoid conflict, and they don't know how to apologize or repair through it. Yeah, me too. Like, I, I... You avoid conflict like the plague. I, I do, too. It's not something that... I think most people, it's just an uncomfortable situation, right? Conflict is inherently uncomfortable, and as humans, we're wired for comfort.

So we wanna stay the hell away from discomfort and conflict as- Yeah ... much as possible.

I think I'm more conflict averse than average.

Yeah. I would agree with that. I would agree with that.

Yeah. Yeah. I, I find it hard. It ta- it takes a lot out of me to- Yeah ... deal with conflict.

Yeah.

Um, it's he- it's helped a lot, going back to the connection or comfort chapter, like, to know that it's in service of the relationship.

Yeah.

And so I, I like-

I think that that's an important reframe.

Yeah.

Like, b- 'cause I don't think that gets enough, uh-

Airtime? ...

airtime. Yeah. People think like, "Oh, conflict, avoid. It's bad for my relationship," not understanding that actually, no, it's a green flag. It's actually a good thing.

Yeah. I like starting the chapter with that, actually, because you, you hear it all the time, people...

And I know some people are bullshitting probably, and some people are probably telling the truth, but, "Oh, we never fight." And when I hear someone say, "We never fight. We never argue," I, I think either bullshit or, two, uh-oh.

Yeah. But also I think y- it's, uh, people's definition of what fight is, right? Like, some people think a fight is, like, a full-out domes- like a blowout...

I, uh, disagreement and conflict is inevitable in- Mm-hmm ... every relationship. Fighting is, like, some people may take that as, like, a, a, a very excessive form of disagreeing or conflict.

Yeah. I

get what you mean. And maybe they don't get to that level. Yeah. But yeah, I get your point, is like conflict and disagreement.

When people say they don't co- they don't disagree, they don't have conflict in their relationship-

We never

argue ... to your point, to your point, one of two things is happening. Either you're full of it-

Mm-hmm ...

or look out. Things aren't as rosy as- Someone

isn't still- Yeah ... someone isn't engaged in this relationship.

Yeah. Someone is just going along to get along, and eventually that resentment will build to the point where they will explode, and it will all come out at some point or another.

Yeah. I, I firmly believe that- If in fact there are no disagreements, no arguments in your relationship, someone is either just saying whatever they want, they think you wanna hear to get along with you, or they have one foot out the door that's not worth arguing with you anymore.

That's tough.

The no arguments thing is a big red flag in a relationship. So I like that we start the chapter with, no, it's a green flag. Because you are two human beings who have had two different life experiences to this point, and you're gonna bring all that life experience and the lens through which you see the world into your relationship.

And as alike and aligned as two people can be, you will never see every element of the world in exactly the same way. So there will be a conflict from time to time. Like, we are very aligned in our values and our view of the world, and we have conflict.

And we are not aligned on every single view of the world.

It's impossible. Expecting to be aligned... And it still sometimes surprises me when we are in conflict, like, how do you not see it my way? Like, I really... Some things, like-

Why are you wrong? Like, I don't understand why you don't see it the right way. Like, why won't you see- Like, my way's the right way very clearly.

Like, I don't understand how someone as smart as you- ... doesn't see this as a problem. Yeah Or not a problem.

Exactly. That's exactly how I feel when you don't have the same view as me on certain topics.

I get it. You're not- It

blows my mind ...

I get it. You're not the only one.

Yeah. So it's, it's just, it's an important frame to remember that it is good.

You both wanna bring your own perspective into the relationship and into the conversation.

Yeah.

And then you can seek alignment, understand each other, grow.

I think avoiding conflict is one of the- one of the wedges that get, gets driven into relationships- Yes.

Very much ...

that actually is the, the, the, like, the death nail or whatever.

Yeah Like, it- I

was gonna say death

nail. Should've. We're aligned. Um, eh, I do, I really do think that avoiding conflict is actu- the exact thing that is damaging more relationships-

Yeah ...

than-

Uh, the avoiding arguments is damaging more relationships than arguments most of the time.

Yeah. Yeah.

And so getting to the argument, um, it, there, there's three simple rules.

There's a lot of rules and there's a lot of things in this chapter, and so there's a lot of underlining and highlighting and things to remember, but I think the rules are pretty simple.

Don't be an asshole. It boils down to don't be an asshole.

Don't yell. No one likes to be yelled at, and I, and we... Like, I grew up with yelling, and I really do believe most of the time, if not virtually all the time, it comes from not feeling heard.

So my voice gets louder when I feel like you're not hearing me.

But it does, it, it, similar to the conflict, it being, it having the opposite effect-

100% opposite effect ...

yelling, opposite effect.

Yeah. I'm- No

one's

listening ... less likely to listen to you when you raise your voice at me.

No one's listening when you yell.

So one of the antidotes to yelling is to, as hard as it can be sometimes, just let them say it all. Like, everything they want to say, let them say it all. Don't interrupt them. And then when they're ,done, confirm. " is that everything that you wanted to share? 'Cause I, I'm, I'm gonna go next and I wanna make sure you've had your opportunity to share your whole perspective."

And they may feel at least like you've heard them, they've had the opportunity, and then you can share your side. So then no yelling.

And, and, and, and on top of that, to, to even further that, if you really wanna make them feel heard, you can repeat back to them- Yeah ... what you heard in your words so that they get an idea that, oh, yeah, I actually did listen.

And the second one, well, actually it was the first one I think, no name-calling.

Yeah ...

it's, it's obvious in these moments of calm- But it happens more often than you'd like to think

You gotta know when you call someone out of their name that it's gonna escalate things- Yeah

'cause

all you're gonna- You call someone a dipshit or a jackass or an asshole or-

Anything ...

anything.

Anything that's not sweetie, babe, honey, love.

Yeah. It, it- Okay ... turns off that part of your brain where you can be logical and stay locked into a productive conversation. Mm-hmm. So by you calling them a name, you, you've escalated this conversation significantly and turned off, at least for the moment, the ability to actually resolve it productively.

So that's on you. And then the third one, the vulnerabilities. Is probably... Th- those two are important. The first two are very important. I think the third one, the not weaponizing vulnerabilities-

You call someone a dipshit, that can be l- kind of laughed off, and it's, it's, to s- it's still serious. Don't do it.

But if you really weaponize something that someone told you in confidence and throw it back in their face the next time- You are being an asshole ... then it's, that's, then you're the asshole that you're calling them.

Yeah. That, that nothing is gonna kill trust faster. People... No one is going to share something private and important and vulnerable with you again if they can't trust that you're not gonna throw it back in their face the next time you get upset.

Yeah.

And if you can't hold that for someone, they're gonna stop sharing that. And if they stop sharing that, you don't have a relationship anymore. Your connection will die if you don't share the shit going on inside of you. Yeah. So not fighting fair, not arguing with the, within these confines of these rules is the fastest way to kill a relationship.

Couldn't agree more

I also wanted to talk about apologizing

Just go ahead

Ap- apologizing is hard for me

Apologizing for, apologizing's hard for everyone

I did not grow up that I can ever remember seeing an apology with my parents. And I, like, I'm sure it probably happened, like, I'm sure it did, but I don't remember it.

Mm.

And so it's not something that happened regularly, was commonplace, was role-modeled, was a thing that happened. I,

I feel like most perfectionists are probably aren't great at apologizing. Yeah. 'Cause it's admitting wrong.

Yeah.

And if you're a perfectionist, that's like, m- m- I'd rather peel my, uh, skin off my body- It's like-

than admit I'm wrong.

Yeah, because my value is so tied- Yeah ... to being right-

Yeah ...

that admitting wrong is really challenging.

Yeah. Well, apologizing, it, uh, and look, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree in, with these boys.

Yeah.

The niece and nephew. Like, these boys, like, uh, we talk about it in the book.

They'd rather chew off their arm-

Mm-hmm ...

than apologize, especially to each other.

Mm-hmm.

I remember we were out in the backyard, and I can't remember exactly what happened, but Jake did something to Nate- Mm ... and hurt him. Eight year old to a 10 year old. Uh, they were six and eight then. But hurt him. I was like, "Jake, apologize."

And then retaliation happens. Mm-hmm. Right? Of course. Yeah. So, so they, they've both done something to each other, so now I'm trying to get them each to apologize to the other for what they did. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I mean, you might, you m- you thought I was asking them to, like, cut off their arm. I swear, like, it was, like, pulling teeth.

And, like, under his breath as he's walking away, he finally maybe- Muttered ... muttered the, the words. I don't even know if they were in the right order-

Language ...

or in the right language. But yeah, words came out of his mouth and we're like, "All right, well, we just, we're gonna... He said sorry. What about you?"

Mm-hmm. And like, "S- I'm sorry, too." Whatever. And we kept going, but yeah, it was a cr- Hard ... challenge.

Yeah. Yeah. And obviously with my cousin, I mean, with her Post-it, I'm... Will tell that story at her wedding, which is probably coming up soon. Um, like, that, that story is in, is imprinted on me forever. It was so fun.

I had to, I tried really hard. I did not laugh, but I wanted to with that, that little Post-it over her little mouth. I'm like, wow, she can't even bring herself to say the words out loud.

Yeah.

It's wild.

Yeah. But I think most people- I agree ... most people don't, first of all, it's uncomfortable and don't want to 'cause it's admitting wrong.

And two, don't know how to do it.

Yeah.

Don't know how to do it ap- appropriately or effectively. It's-

Oh my gosh. How many apologies- ... blah, if- ... have you heard with the buts in the

end? Yeah. I'm sorry- I'm

sorry if I hurt your feelings.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings.

It makes it feel like it's my fault for getting my feelings hurt.

It's like, no, you, it's not if you hurt my feelings, motherfucker. You hurt my feelings. Yeah. But this apology isn't f- like, doing anything for that either.

And it's interesting because most people, I think, believe they need to p- apologize only for their intention. "Well, I didn't intend to hurt you. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, so I don't have to apologize.

You got your feelings hurt. That's on you. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings."

Well, that's great that you didn't mean to, but here we are.

Yeah.

But the- Me with a pile of hurt feelings here.

Apologies are for your impact, not for your intention,

Simon Sinek explains this well, where if you're walking through a crowded airport rushing to catch your flight and you've got your little pulley suitcase coming behind you, and you accidentally roll it over someone's foot, you apolo- you turn around and you say, "Oh, s- I'm sorry."

I didn't ever intend to roll my suitcase over your foot, but I did, and so I apologized because I did, which is the impact. I don't not apologize 'cause I didn't mean to and your fucking foot was in the way, so tough shit for you. Like, no, it's my suitcase. I pulled it. I pulled it over your foot. I apologize, 'cause that's the impact.

We apologize for impact, not for intention, and that's really hard because I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

But here I am over here with hurt feelings.

Right.

What are you gonna do about it?

And so I'm gonna apologize because the impact of what I said, even though I didn't mean to, was that I hurt your feelings.

Right. And as a teammate, I'm gonna do my best to forgive you, as long as you didn't, like, this isn't a repeat offense- Well- ... and you're doing it every day ...

and that's a good point, going back to the fourth rule of an apology, is you can give the world's greatest apology- You keep doing- ... but if you keep doing that same shit over and over and over and over again-

It, the-

no, I don't

believe you ... wears pretty thin.

Yeah.

Yeah. The, it loses all credibility.

Yeah.

I'm not gonna believe you next time you apologize for something, even if you are really sorry about it.

Yeah, in that moment, if you do it again, then you've just negated your whole apology. So those are my big takeaways from that.

Also, the other one, my also, my other favorite part of this chapter, I guess, is the listen to understand. Like, most of us do just wait for the other person to stop talking and fill in the blank without

Yeah ... space. I do feel like sometimes I'm, I'm still guilty of that. I try really hard not to be guilty of that.

Mm-hmm. But in conversation it's like, "Oh, that was a great..." It's just, they did something- I wanna get something out ... I wanna, I wanna get my word, I wanna get that thought out.

Mm-hmm.

And then you kind of miss the next part of the conversation.

Mm-hmm.

And they may actually even make the same point.

Yeah.

Right?

And it's just like-

But I'm distracted now ...

uh, but I've got the thing I wanna say.

Yeah.

And so I ram that in there, and it's like, all right, well, you didn't hear the other half of the conversation where either they already said that, that's no longer relevant, or you just missed some really valuable connection time with that person.

Mm-hmm. So, uh, it's something I still have to, like-

In, in every conversation ... work on ... but especially in a disagreement. Like, actually listening to understand- Yeah ... their perspective. For

sure.

I'm not just trying to get you on my side. The point, I think, I think this is an important point, is like the point of the conflict, which we talked about at the beginning, is not to win the argument.

It's not to make you finally realize that you're wrong and I'm right, and you're gonna say, "Oh, I get it now. I'm fully on board with your perspective." Like, that is almost never gonna happen. That is not the goal of the disagreement. Yeah. The goal of the disagreement is for me to better understand your perspective and for you to better understand mine.

We don't have to agree on whose perspective is the best one. Yours works for you, mine works for me, and we better understand each other. And if you don't actually listen to understand their perspective, and you're just trying to always make them see it from your side, then you miss that completely and you don't actually get to grow together and connect stronger based on the disagreement.

So the listening to understand is a really challenging skill to build, but critical to being able to stay connected through conflict. 100%.

200%. 200%, MacKay. 200%. 200%.

200%.

Anything else you'd like to chitchat about?

No, that's all I got for today.

So that's that episode. So we're next firing up chapter 23, and we've got you.

I'm gonna take

over. You're gonna take over. Marriage math and the holy trinity of connection. Gonna be a beauty of a chapter. We'll see you next time. Bye.

  And that's a wrap on this week's briefing. If this episode hit a nerve, don't let your momentum die Head over to the 200percentmarriage.com/unstoppableteam to take the unstoppable team audit. Find out exactly where your domestic drag is hiding so you can start optimizing your team today. And if you love the show, share it with another power couple who refuses to settle for fine, because a 200% life is better with a community.

See you on the next adventure