41: Simple Secrets to a Happy Marriage - with Belinda & Brigham Blackham

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Episode Transcription

 welcome back to the road of life podcast with MacKay and Bennett. And this week we are super pumped because we've got two really fantastic guests with us today.

We actually had the pleasure of Being guests on Brigham's podcast way back in February. And Brigham is, I mean, Brigham is a charismatic guy. Storyteller. Fantastic storyteller with infectious energy. He's incredibly easy to talk to and spend time with and so we're obviously pleased to have him. But we're even more excited to get to have his wife Belinda on the show with us too.

We have the pleasure of welcoming Belinda to her first ever podcast and we're so grateful she chose to do that with us today. So, huge thank you Belinda for joining us here today and trusting us to speak to everybody about the fabulous relationship that you and Brigham have together.

And so, just wanted to say a big thank you to both of you for being here. Yeah,

absolutely. It's a pleasure. Excited to be here.

Let's get right into it and ask how did you two meet and tell us a bit about your family.

Ladies first.

Oh, thanks. Well, we met at auditions for a play in college, actually.

I leaned over to my friend and I was like, who is that? Cause he walked in and sat right next to her. And so I asked who he was and apparently he did the same thing.

Yeah. When she was up, I was like,

who is that?

And she was like, right in between us.

She was the cream filling of our Oreo for a time. Yeah.

We met that way. We dated for kind of dated on and off for a few months and

we say on and off now. I feel like I need to have this cause it hurt me a whole lot more than it hurt her.

He's very intense.

I'm really intense. Okay. I, we, we started dating and I told her that I loved her like within a month and she's like, okay. All right. Within a month I softened it.

Okay. A week and a half after we met,

I told her I loved her and she's like, we're done. I don't even know you guy. So we were broken up for a couple of weeks during the rehearsal process and we got back together during the performance.

Yeah, it was really fun making out backstage. So, I mean, that was great. And then we did not miss any cues though. So we were very professional ish. That was before my mission. That was before I served over in Taiwan. So we had four months of basically courting before I left for two years.

How did that go that, 'cause you're, I mean you're still relatively into this relationship new, it's been four months and now

relatively into it. He's in love with her.

Yeah.

She's not so sure she's not, but she may not be there yet. I don't know. In the first week and a half she was, and I don't know, but four months.

But at some point Brigham leaves. How? Walk us through that.

Well actually that played a factor in the beginning. And why him saying, I love you, scared me so much is because we knew his mission was coming and so he got really, really intense, really fast and it kind of scared me. I went, you have a two year mission ahead of you and I don't want to just wait around for two years, you know, and so that's why it kind of freaked me out and And I was like, okay, we're done.

This is just, this is too much. You still have a mission. We're done. But we did still really like each other. And so right before his mission, we actually kind of mutually decided that we were going to be pen pals, but we were, we were broken up and I was still going to date other people. And he told me, don't tell me about any guys.

I only want to hear if you're getting married. And so we wrote as pen pals for two years and I dated for a while in probably the last Six months or so that he was out. I kind of stopped dating and was like I want to see where it goes when he comes home and

and then I gotta tell this part. Six days after I got back, we were engaged. That was pretty fast. Right. What's funny about that is in our church, we have an opportunity to like talk about our mission after like to share testimony and different things that we experienced for our congregation.

I never seen any other missionary do this, but while I was sharing about a month after I came home, I was like, and I'm engaged to

there was an audible gasp of the congregation. That he announced his engagement over the pulpit

as a return missionary Yeah, because you don't get a date as a missionary like you don't date at all You're just focused on helping people and it was a it was an awesome gasp It was probably the best audience reaction i've ever had and i've been in a lot of theatrical shows It was amazing.

I wish I had it recorded. It was so good.

That's awesome. Oh my god, that's a great story. Those last six months you had some high anticipation of him coming home. And he's obviously a very charismatic and influential guy that he talked you into that six days in.

Well, and I feel like the writing letters where it wasn't dating based, it was just getting to know each other. So we kind of had two years that where the relationship was kind of off the table. It was just things that we liked, things that we didn't like.

What's going on with your mission? Oh, tell me about your family. Like, it was just, we really did get to know each other really well through letters over two years. And then kind of got to see when he got home, if that spark was still there.

It was definitely still there. That's interesting. It's an interesting point for people is that it sounds like you really built An emotional connection, even though you weren't technically dating each other at that point, but you were still connecting on some level and Oh, yeah, kind of deepening that emotional connection and laying a foundation for what was about to come when he made it back home

One of the interesting things as well is we, we had these dorky little recorders that we would, we would record things.

I always did my best to like make her laugh any way that I could. But I tell like stupid jokes and different things just to see how we could connect. Right. It was kind of like voice. Voice texting before that was a thing.

Yeah, just like the mini cassettes. Yeah,

they were like tiny little things and you could only have like an hour.

So you had to be really selective with what you shared because you ran out of space really fast.

Right.

So, I would record, you know, over a two or three week period and then I'd send her that tape. Oh, tell her, tell her the story of your mishap with one of the tapes.

Oh, I don't know if you guys have ever had, like, UPS lose your mail or something.

There was one time, all I got in the mail was a little Ziploc baggie with the UPS label on it. That was like, sorry about your package, and there was like a few pieces of paper and like a ripped envelope. It's like

a

crime scene or something. It's crazy. We lost something.

So one of, so one of Brigham's tapes is out there somewhere?

Yep, somewhere. Somewhere. Somewhere, yep. Someone got that tape. Oh, that's hilarious.

Maybe you'll get it back someday. So you were engaged six days after you came home, built on this incredibly strong foundation of friendship that you've been cultivating over the two year period that you were gone.

How long after that did you get married?

About six months.

Wow.

So yeah, we were engaged in December and then married in May.

Brigham, were you an entrepreneur then? Or were you still teaching at that point?

Okay, so let's let's play Brigham history for a second. Perfect. I started off in high school very interested in leadership development. I was in a company the I think it was called MonaVie, but the whole thing that I was attracted to was their personal development side, which was called team.

Together everyone achieves more. And I, I probably read 50 to a hundred books about leadership while I was in high school. I never sold one of their products ever, which was really unfortunate, but it was a really good failure to, to say, wow, you actually need to like the product that you're selling to sell it.

It's a great lesson to learn. Cause I didn't, I, I drank their juice, but I was like, this is really expensive. 60 juice. I, I don't, I don't even know if I want to keep buying it, but I, it was so hard to sell that. I just never really got into that, but I love the personal development side. So I, I have that desire to be a speaker in high school and I had a desire to be a theater practitioner my whole life and actor and I was like, well, if I'm going to do anything, I want to be able to, to share great stories and be able to connect with people. So I was like, I'm focusing in on how do I be the best actor that I possibly can and grow that into a career.

And I went to college and I focused in on what, what does that mean? actually look like. And that's how we, we met was through theater and we've done tons of shows together and did professional theater for a time. But one of the things that, that I wasn't told early on, but I, I guess I, I had parents that hinted at it was you really need to make sure you're making money, not just making good stories.

I realized really quickly in Utah, it's very challenging to only be an actor and make money. Because it's called show business, not just show everybody what you're doing. So while I was going through that process, I was like, I need to figure out a way that I can make money. So I, I thought, well, what is the skill sets that I have?

I'm a really good storyteller. I enjoy teaching and I really love helping people. I was like, well, being a teacher makes sense. Then I have my summers open to do, do shows. I did that for seven years, but I realized really quickly that that vehicle was not going to get me where I wanted to go long term. So June, 2022.

That was two years ago now. That's crazy. I thought it was only a year ago. That was two years ago. I quit my teaching profession in public school, at least so that I could pursue being an entrepreneur. In 2019, I did my first short term rental and I've been growing a short term rental portfolio ever since then.

And we've got nine right now that that's kind of sustaining us, but that's not the thing that makes me happy. The thing that makes me happy, that makes me want to continue to, to help is being a speaker and a leader. So that is right now, the engine that is letting our car keep moving forward. And I'm building this engine of being a speaker now and an entrepreneur.

And I love solving great problems. So I'm just at the beginning of that speaking career. But you guys just watch. It's going to be awesome. I'm going to write great books. I'm going to have great courses. It's something that I've been talking about for years. with Greg Kimball supporting me, helped me get my podcast up and running, and now helped me figure out what I need to do to focus.

Cause that's been a little bit of a challenge to focus so that I can actually turn that dream into a reality. That's where I'm going. I'm really excited about it. And she's on in for the ride and she's a little scared at times, but I'm so grateful for her support. She's been the most supportive person.

That's amazing. And we have no doubt that it's going to be a show to watch as you, you know, climb the speaking ladder and let your light shine to the world. So we're excited to have front row seats to that. You brought up where she's been super supportive.

She's been there with me, my rock beside me as we've gone on this crazy journey. And we know that entrepreneurship is not for the faint of heart. There's, there's ups and downs and it's,

it's a rollercoaster at times.

Yeah,

it's, it's pretty terrifying at times. Yeah, she has been there beside me the whole time.

Yeah, so how do you, how do you guys balance those, those demands of, you know, your marriage, but also the day to day of managing your business?

Because you also have a few kids, right? You also,

yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Four.

Four.

A handful.

Only a few, right? And what ages are they?

11, 8, 4, and 8 months. So,

you've got

loads of time.

Yeah, we've got quite a span.

Yeah, so you've got a lot going on at home, right? Like, four kids is bonkers for me. There's a lot going on. And, like, little tiny ones. Like, you've got a whole range of them. And you've got the business over here on this side. And then you've also got kids. So all of those things require a lot of time, attention, energy, focus.

What works for you two? How do you balance all of that so that you, you know, take care of the family, take care of the business, but also still manage to find time for each other? How do you do that?

I'd say starting off The first thing I think of is just our both of our mindset towards each other about it that there there have been times in the past where We had conversations and I told him that I you know, I don't think you're happy.

He had more time, you know, he would go to work and come home and we had lots of time together, but he wasn't feeling fulfilled or necessarily enjoying as much what he, what he was doing. And now, even though we have a little bit less time, he feels like he's doing what he was, he's working towards what he's supposed to be doing and simply Seeing that make him so much happier, really helps with that time.

So, and knowing that he, that he is enjoying what he is doing kind of bleeds into the family time as well. That happiness bleeds into the family time as well. So I feel like we have more that's the word I'm looking for, more, yeah, more quality time together and.

And just communicating a lot with schedules and what's going on. I mean, we're still not great at it. We try and ask every single morning. Hey, what does your day look like? Every single evening. Hey, what does tomorrow look like? And just when we pass, Hey, what's going on? You know, just to kind of constantly check in because especially, I mean, being an entrepreneur it changes regularly. Like he could have a schedule one evening, but by the time he wakes up, Oh, this changed and this changed. And, and then, Oh, I had a phone call. I thought you were doing this, just kidding. This changed. And so just trying to constantly communicate.

One of the things about balance that I think is really helpful is knowing that we're both 100 percent committed.

And that was something that I felt like I, I came into this relationship so hard committed that it scared her at first, but it endeared me to her later because when I say I love you, I am here forever. She knows it. And that commitment is something that I think marriage is so key for, because if, if you have someone that's only partially committed, they're not fully there, they didn't fully commit. I mean, maybe they have a leg in the, in the pool, but they don't have their whole body. And. I like the analogy of you have to go a hundred percent on both ends. If you've got a bridge on one side and they go 95% and the other side goes 95%, that bridge is still gonna collapse.

Mm-Hmm, .

But if I go a hundred percent and then she goes a hundred percent, then thanks for being my, my my bridge. We can actually survive. And I think the difference between someone that gets divorced and someone that stays together, they have the same problems. Almost always you have the same problems.

It's, are you committed to solving them together? And I think that's one of the ways that we find, find balance. I love David A Bednar. He talks about balance is a myth. Because he's like, well, every element of your life is like a spinning plate and you get that one plate spin as fast as you can. You're like, all right, now you go to the next plate and you spin it and you get it going.

You're like, oh, there's a marriage and spin that plate. Oh, got to come back to this one and spin it again. And you just keep getting those, those plates spinning. But you're bouncing back and forth and you just have to be where you're at in that moment. And maybe you're spinning the marriage plate, maybe you're spinning the family plate, maybe you're spinning the work plate.

But you have to choose in that moment, because if you're trying to spin two plates at once, what happens? You break both the plates. So you have to like hold the stick and then you spin that plate and you make sure it's going and then You can do the next thing and I think part of that i'm not perfect at this guys.

I'm talking to myself, too but part of that is being intentional with your your mindset your skill set and your tool set in every Compartmentalized part of your life.

I think the other thing that helps is both of us recognizing that we're You Always a work in progress that neither one of us is like, no, I'm good at this.

You're the one that needs to be better. No, I know I've got this figured out. You're the one that needs to figure this out. Like remembering that both of us are trying and as good as we communicate, we can do better. As good as we're planning, we can do better as good as, and just kind of giving each other that, that grace that we are, okay, we failed this time, but we're trying.

Yeah. That's so good. There's a lot of gold nuggets in there.

I haven't taken notes because you guys dropped a lot of gold there and I want to do a quick recap in case anybody missed it. The first thing that Belinda said that resonated so much for me and for us, I think Was the fulfillment, the, that Brigham is lit up from the inside doing what he loves to do as opposed to feeling His light dimmed doing something he wasn't fulfilled with which I mean especially for you But for both of us coming out of our corporate jobs, We had that same feeling like we're unfulfilled like we had a lot of time to spend But the same situation as you, you weren't content in your life.

So there was that sort of discontent inside of you that would come out. When you're on your path, doing something that you love to be doing and feeling fulfilled in what you do, you're lit up from the inside and that's a contagious light that shines. Throughout all aspects of your life.

So I think that's almost like the foundation for creating the happy marriage, the happy family, the happy self is to feel that sense of contribution and fulfillment in what you're doing and you can bring that to everybody else. I thought that was a like a huge gold nugget of just awareness to kick things off.

The second thing I heard Belinda say was the communication, but specifically the check ins. We are giant fans of checking in. I love the morning check in, especially for business entrepreneurs because to your point, spoke in the wheel, like things change. And so what's the day look like? When are we going to get to connect over a walk? When are we going to get to do this today? What's your day look like? Just having a good sense of what the day looks like. So you've kind of got expectations set. And then the end of day check in I also love. It's my favorite one actually, the end of day check in.

Those check ins are important for the logistics and all the things, but they're also sort of like a secret message that, I care about what your day looks like, I want to make sure I'm involved in it, I care about how it went, I want to make sure you know that I care, like those check in questions, beyond just the actual infrastructure of communication, are the way to

Emotionally connect.

Emotionally connect and include each other in your days, and so I think those are so, so important.

The next thing I heard was from Brigham when he was saying the commitment. 100%. And having that, knowing that that person's there, they're committed.

So even when craziness happens, life comes at us fast, entrepreneurship comes at us fast. You can rest easy knowing that this part of the life or our relationship is, we've nurtured it. We've taken that, that opportunity to make sure that we're both committed and there for each other. And so that there's a less, added stress because you've taken that time to develop that foundation in your relationship.

So it helps other aspects of your life. You can now give more energy to, to your entrepreneurship or whatever it is because you know that Belinda's got your back.

Yeah. It's like this, this trust, it takes this weight off that like, I know they're there. Even if you're going through a season of difficulty or, some hard days, Maybe you don't agree on the path to get somewhere.

You have your North Star that you're trying to get to. You may not always agree every day on the exact route to take for that day. So some days are harder than others, but there's that intrinsic trust that They are there. He is there, she is there, no matter how we disagree on this, or no matter what the kids have done, that human is there for me no matter what happens, and I loved how you pointed out the difference between people who get divorced and who don't get divorced, we all have the same issue.

We all deal with the same stuff. It's the trust and the commitment to figuring out the way through. 'cause there is always a way through it. It's just

how committed are you?

How committed are you to figuring it out, to getting the help, to talking to the people. Like there people have what you want, that thriving marriage, that successful business. People have that. And if you're going through a season of difficulty, it's. How committed are you to getting through that season of difficulty and to the other side? Because there's always an other side if you're willing to be committed enough to put the work in to get there.

And so I loved that. And then I loved what you said around being where your freaking feet are. A lot of times we think our most important resource is our time, but our most important resource is actually our attention. So you can spend all the time together in the world, but if you're not actually being where your feet are, being present in the moment, giving your 100 percent attention, spinning one plate at a time, giving all your attention to that one plate, you're going to break the plate.

And so being in the moment with your kid. With your wife, with your business, wherever you happen to be, it's that dedicated attention. Like, that was liquid gold coming out of you. And then the last part from Belinda.

Was it liquid?

I don't know. Maybe it was a gold nugget. A little bit of spit

going out there, right?

That was probably from me, right?

The last thing I heard Belinda say was you're both works in progress and that you share the accountability. You share the need for growth. You share grace with each other.

Offering each other the benefit of the doubt.

100%.

Yeah. Knowing that you're both trying, you're both doing the absolute best you can.

Showing up as your best selves every day. What your best is on that day. The best we have for that day. And just knowing that that person is, is, is showing up as best they can. And yeah, they're human beings. They make mistakes and just offering that grace is so important.

I share a quick pattern. Interrupt,

of course. Okay. So I get distracted very easily. Right. And this week alone, I was playing pickleball twice. One of the times where we had a communication breakdown I forgot to tell my wife, I was going to go play pickleball after the gym because I didn't think to tell her, which is.

Don't do that, but I was playing for I was gonna be like an hour. It ended up being like two and a half and I mean it happens pickleball is fun. It's so fun. It's so much fun I know and I was I was focused on just crushing it. I was doing really well and But Belinda is on the ball and she calls me. She's like, what are you doing?

You need to get to work. You need to freaking focus on things. I was like, Oh, I've been exercising slash playing pickleball for four hours total. Cause I went to the gym and then I went and played pickleball. Yeah. I need to get to work today. I should probably do that now. So sometimes in those little breakdowns and communication, you have these little takeaways.

And now when I go play pickleball, I text her, can I go play pickleball please?

Not even asking permission. Just in a check in.

I guess not asking permission.

Letting me know.

Yeah. Let her know. Do those little check ins.

Yeah.

One of the check ins I think is really fun with us that we do every single day. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. As long as we don't forget, like most of the time.

Isn't that how it always is? I do it all the time. I do it all the time,

except for when I don't. So, with the exception of the exceptions, we do it all the time.

At 11. 11 we will text where, like one of us, whoever remembers first, will say, Hey, I love you. In whatever way we can and that's one of those things that has meant the world to me I mean it it sometimes takes five seconds but if she gets a little text from me or I get a text from her it means the world because Yes, we we said we loved each other when we were married.

It doesn't ever hurt to say I love you There's zero bad things that will come from that.

That time that 11 11 time is something that kind of became a thing because of Brigham's family. If either of us sees that time I know you have an alarm set on your phone generally to go off at that time But it's just kind of and I love you reminder, I guess.

I'll give you the context for that. My my brother who passed away a few years ago he used to write a lot of poems and He had schizophrenia, he did have some challenges as far as being able to associate with other people in his later years. And one of the things I thought was very endearing with his poetry was anytime there was an L, he would put a 1.

And his expression, unconditional love, Unconditional love has four Ls in it. So at 1111,

unconditional love to all.

Unconditional love, love to all. Thank you. Yes. I can spell . Unconditional love to all

has four Ls. It has four L

1111, and that was one of his poems, and it became more meaningful at 11, 11 to say, I love you because of that little expression.

The way that Brad shared it with me, he shared it with our family, he shared it with anybody that he was around at 11 11 every single day. And it doesn't matter if you even know him. If you say, hey, I love you to a stranger, what's the worst they're gonna say? Like, weirdo? You're like, yeah, that's fine.

Right? But, it means something to us. And it's been something we're doing. Sorry, I didn't mean

to get off course. You're good. No, you're

good. Hey, we're on the road to life right now, and sometimes the detours are the most fun parts. They usually are. I agree. Speaking of detours, oh, I was thinking about a story that we should share because I have never shared it online and it's tragic, but also really funny.

Do you remember when my aunt passed away and I drove separate from you to the funeral?

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh

is the correct answer. This is Linda's

like, oh no.

Oh!

It was just, it was just a very long day. It's the worst

road story we ever heard. We've ever experienced, I think. So here it goes. You ready?

Cause it was a hot summer day. It was really, I think it's related ish. Cause it was like a hundred degrees outside. We were driving maybe even like 110, but it was so hot. My, my hands.

Separately because we had to pick up a car from the shop on the way.

Yeah. Cause it got fixed. Anyway we drove it about 30 miles.

And the car that was fixed, they forgot to put oil back in it. So when that happens, a car without oil is like a human without water. It kind of like shrivels up and then smoke happens and like, like flames. Anyway, it, it like boiled the, the water and all the different things are in. I don't even know what all those fluids are called.

I'm not a mechanic guy, but it was boiling and it was steaming. And we're like, I killed the car. I don't, I don't, we

were on the way to a funeral. And so I get

there, I

will pick you up. We will keep going. We'll get it. We'll figure it out on the way home. We're gonna be late

So we pull over in spanish fork and i'm just waiting until belinda gets there and i'm fuming almost like that car's gonna say I Paid them so much money to get my car fixed and it's not fixed and I was frustrated They were driving in our car and it's a hot day.

I think I remember this because it was so like Sticky hot and waiting. It was probably only a half an hour that I was waiting in the sun, sitting in a hot car is actually hotter than sitting outside the car. So I was not even in the car, but I was drenched in sweat, going to a funeral, smelling to high heaven.

I get in the car and she's like, had a rough time? And I was like, yeah, a really rough time. But the air conditioning helps a little bit. I'm still like pitted out in my, in my suit and stuff, which is gross, but didn't have a change of clothes. We, we get almost to

the

exit and this car starts like having these awful groaning sounds.

And I was like, what is wrong with our vehicle? And it just like, it. I I, I don't know. We may not be exit. We may not be exit, but the battery gets

done.

It just like it gave up the ghost, it died and we had to just keep pulling over and starting the car. And then it would light up for a second. Like, okay, we can do this.

And then we'd get on the road and it, and then the car would die. And what happens when the battery dies is the. The steering is no longer power steering. So it's like, you're like going really hard. So we got over to the side and the last two or so miles were extremely stressful, but we get into this gas station about 10 miles from where we're supposed to go.

And. The funeral's already started. So we know no people that are close by that can come help. I mean, we did have

family at the funeral. Yeah, we

had like

50 people at the funeral,

but it's a funeral. They are not looking at their phone. So I'm calling every single person I can think of. I'm texting them.

Hey, we're stranded here. Can anyone come get us? We're in a tiny little town that doesn't have good reception to like even get an Uber or something. We have all our kids with us. So it's sweaty and we're tired and frustrated. And then after that breakdown. My sister in law, she's like, Oh, I saw your 12 texts.

I'll come pick you up. We need to get two trips back there. We miss most of the funeral. And. After we get our car situation figured out or there at the funeral, I'm like, that was an awful experience. My aunt had died. Both cars had passed away as well. It was just, is that the wrong way to say it? They, they had given up the ghost.

However you want to say it, both cars were no longer with us.

The vehicle

had gone and we're like, how do we get home now? Because, shoot. Literally we're hours from home and nobody else planned on having passengers. And we, we had a lot of kids, like divvy up the kids, like you're playing Uno or something,

trying to figure out this situation. It's like, it's kind of late now. And we just drop our car off at this random mechanic shop. And we're like, hopefully they can fix it tomorrow. Cause nobody's there right now. I call the guy at their late number. They're like, yeah, we'll get to it by Monday. I was like, Oh, okay.

And we drive home. And on the way home, I, I just have this idea. I was like, well, if, if this is the worst that it can get, man, life's going to be great because it wasn't, it wasn't that bad in the moment. Awful, absolutely awful, sweaty, drenched, smelly missed the nice parts of the funeral and got the sad parts of the funeral.

And man, sometimes life, life's you in a way that. You have both your cars break down and everything feels like it is just broken. But after the funeral, on our drive home, we all got home, we were healthy, we had our kids, nobody was hurt. Literally, the cars died, but we were fine. And a lot of times it's the way we think about those situations.

That dictate whether or not it's good or bad and now I would say that's a really funny story That was awful to live through but when you have time and pain that turns into a good story.

Yeah,

and That's part of the way that I think that marriage is is You will have moments where your cars break down where you feel like everything is going against you

But

then you look around and you're like, I'm still with the one I love.

I'm here because I chose to be here and I'm committed to being on this road of life, even though both of our cars broke down and now we have to hitchhike like hobos. It's okay. Because you have each other because we have each other and we're just like holding hands, which I get no

So true, it's all about perspective right that could that day could have been so much It was bad as it was but could have been so much worse if both of your attitudes were any Different than what they were that day going with the flow made it so much easier than had you been at each other. Stress happens and it's easy sometimes to, fall below and not rise above, let that impact you and take you completely off course.

So it's a really cool story.

Yeah. It's funny. Cause I was thinking when you started this story, I'm like, Ooh, I want to ask them. How they get through the hard days, right? Because this is a hard day that they are experiencing. And entrepreneurship, it brings hard days.

Marriage brings hard days. We, we all have just days that are harder. How do you two sort of pull each other through those hard days so that they don't cascade?

When I was younger, I used to think that having a good life means it was good days.

Having a good marriage means we don't fight having good kids means they don't do things wrong. And recognizing over time that just, just because bad things happen, just because you have a bad day. Doesn't mean it's all bad and there's going to be both of those things. And sometimes listening to personal development things, I sometimes would get the idea that they have it figured out and they can stop themselves before, when I think a lot of times what it actually is, is we make a mistake, but we're aware that we made a mistake so that we can do better next time, even if we just don't make as bad of a mistake. And then over time slowly get better.

I think with those bad days, it's, it's taking those little steps and going, Hey, I maybe didn't handle this as well as I could have. How can we talk about it honestly and learn how to do better next time? Because if we just shove it under and go, it was fine. But if we actually go, no, I didn't handle this well.

Why didn't I handle this well? And how can I do it better next time? Because we, I mean, we definitely, I definitely fly off the handle sometimes. And I. Trying to figure out what those, what those things are.

One of the ways that I think we deal with hard times is. We focus on what are the controllables or the things we actually can do. I've, I've heard multiple people. Most of the time it was in a sports reference, but even in personal development, if you can control the controllables, the things that you have an ability to move the needle on.

Then what are you worrying about all the other things? Worry is just praying for your problems to come true Heard greg say that i've heard so many people say that and you think about the things that we focus on in large And the things that we want if if we are always focusing on those those challenges, they're going to persist in our life They're going to stick around but if we say oh, here's the challenge.

What are my other obstacles? How do I get around this and we focus on a solution rather than just the challenge? Then we will find ways around it. This is one of the things we have in common. We were actors in theater and one of the things that's so important as an actor is you have this intention.

You're like, hey, I need to go from this side of the stage to this side. Well, how do I motivate that? Now, what's the obstacle that's stopping me from going from here to there? All right. What are tactics that I can use to get over that obstacle, through that obstacle, around that obstacle, use the obstacle to catapult and jump over it.

There's so many different ways that you can do that. You can use the obstacle because the way to what you want is through around or using that obstacle. And that's where your choices come in. Go ahead.

I think accepting the obstacle for what it is. A lot of times I think there, there are bad days that I have where I just get caught up in the obstacle and that it's there and that, well, I don't want to go over it.

I don't want to go around it. I don't want to go through it. I don't want like, I don't want the obstacle to be there. Okay. It is. So,

deal with it. Congrats.

You stated it. We don't either. But just acknowledging that it is what it is. And, and being okay with that.

You're

not judging yourself for having the obstacle, saying, I have faith that we will get through this together.

Because together you can do so much more than you can as an individual. There's a synergy that happens. There's not like one plus one equals zero. Two in a marriage one plus one equals six in our case, but Not six kids No, it's good. No, six total, but it really does come down to how do you multiply your efforts is you do things together?

Like I remember teaching history There was this this example of an indian chief who took an arrow and he like snaps the arrow to his braves He's like individuals by themselves are easy to break You But then he goes and he gets all of these arrows and he brings them together. And I don't have enough to actually make this point make sense, but they're going to pretend like this, a ton of arrows.

He's like, but all of us together are unbreakable. And I think together, well, that was six. It was like an exact six. I think, bam, all of us together, we can, we can be unbreakable. But individually were very easily broken.

I hope

that analogy made sense with the stand ins of my colored pencils and my markers rather than arrows.

Yes, that's the idea. It was perfect.

Well, it was perfect. I, I think those are really important reframes and perspectives. Belinda's starting it off with reframing what does good even mean? What is, what is a bad day? What is a good kid? What is a good marriage?

Resetting expectations for yourself on your life is so important because to your point, a good marriage does not mean you never fight. In fact, probably the opposite, right? if you never disagree with someone, it's not probably because you're so in sync, and you're so aligned, and everything is so perfect.

It's probably because one of you is not actually sharing who you actually are, because no two people are identical regardless of who they are.

Can I share a theatrical example really quick? Yes! At the end of this.

Okay.

Okay, so Nora and Torvald. What was the name of that play? Anyway,

Doll's House?

Doll's House, yes. So The Doll's House by George Bernard Shaw. They're Is this awful relationship that is, is brought up in this amazing play. This lady, she's basically caged her entire life. She can't have candy, she can't go out and do different things. She is Torvald's little bird.

She's his

doll. His doll.

In the doll's house. Playing

mom, playing life. Yeah.

And they never really have Any communication that is more than surface level. They have kids they have a model marriage It looks beautiful on paper. They're in a gorgeous house. Everything looks perfect however, the undercurrent of their relationship is indifference They're not connected and you see the way that Nora responds to Torvald in comparison to how Nora talks to her best friend who she's hiding how she goes and she gets treats, these little candies and she's hiding who she is and how she wants to speak out.

So at the very end of this, they break up. And in that argument is the first time that they are able to actually have a conversation. She's like, this is the first time you've spoke to me as a human being and not as your little bird or as your little doll. And I think in marriage, the way that you communicate and the way you actually have heart to heart conversations, that is what is going to make you successful.

Oh, I think it's Henrik Ibsen, isn't it? Dang it! I

was double checking. I was like, I don't think it's Berger and Shah. Thank you so much.

I was, I just had that thought too. I was like, no, that's an Ibsen. Thank you. You're welcome. See, this is how we're connected. That's why I was like, I don't think it's Shah.

I was

like, I don't think it's Shah.

Thank you for correcting me. You didn't even have to look it all the way up. I remembered it though. But Sorry for the misquote. It wasn't George Bernard Shaw, although there is some really good things that he wrote, right? You don't have to be perfect, but one of the things I've learned from that story is have real conversations.

They could have saved their marriage early on. If they actually communicated and opened up and he treated her and she treated him The way they wanted to be treated and they were equal help meets They were people that were in it together rather than you're my doll and now i'm gonna do all my business I'm gonna do all the other stuff That's not how our relationship is and if it ever is like that I want her to you know, take the doll and hit me with it So wake up and be like welcome back to the road of life podcast with MacKay and Bennett. And this week we are super pumped because we've got two really fantastic guests with us today.

We actually had the pleasure of Being guests on Brigham's podcast way back in February. And Brigham is, I mean, Brigham is a charismatic guy. Storyteller. Fantastic storyteller with infectious energy. He's incredibly easy to talk to and spend time with and so we're obviously pleased to have him. But we're even more excited to get to have his wife Belinda on the show with us too.

We have the pleasure of welcoming Belinda to her first ever podcast and we're so grateful she chose to do that with us today. So, huge thank you Belinda for joining us here today and trusting us to speak to everybody about the fabulous relationship that you and Brigham have together.

And so, just wanted to say a big thank you to both of you for being here. Yeah,

absolutely. It's a pleasure. Excited to be here.

Let's get right into it and ask how did you two meet and tell us a bit about your family.

Ladies first.

Oh, thanks. Well, we met at auditions for a play in college, actually.

I leaned over to my friend and I was like, who is that? Cause he walked in and sat right next to her. And so I asked who he was and apparently he did the same thing.

Yeah. When she was up, I was like,

who is that?

And she was like, right in between us.

She was the cream filling of our Oreo for a time. Yeah.

We met that way. We dated for kind of dated on and off for a few months and

we say on and off now. I feel like I need to have this cause it hurt me a whole lot more than it hurt her.

He's very intense.

I'm really intense. Okay. I, we, we started dating and I told her that I loved her like within a month and she's like, okay. All right. Within a month I softened it.

Okay. A week and a half after we met,

I told her I loved her and she's like, we're done. I don't even know you guy. So we were broken up for a couple of weeks during the rehearsal process and we got back together during the performance.

Yeah, it was really fun making out backstage. So, I mean, that was great. And then we did not miss any cues though. So we were very professional ish. That was before my mission. That was before I served over in Taiwan. So we had four months of basically courting before I left for two years.

How did that go that, 'cause you're, I mean you're still relatively into this relationship new, it's been four months and now

relatively into it. He's in love with her.

Yeah.

She's not so sure she's not, but she may not be there yet. I don't know. In the first week and a half she was, and I don't know, but four months.

But at some point Brigham leaves. How? Walk us through that.

Well actually that played a factor in the beginning. And why him saying, I love you, scared me so much is because we knew his mission was coming and so he got really, really intense, really fast and it kind of scared me. I went, you have a two year mission ahead of you and I don't want to just wait around for two years, you know, and so that's why it kind of freaked me out and And I was like, okay, we're done.

This is just, this is too much. You still have a mission. We're done. But we did still really like each other. And so right before his mission, we actually kind of mutually decided that we were going to be pen pals, but we were, we were broken up and I was still going to date other people. And he told me, don't tell me about any guys.

I only want to hear if you're getting married. And so we wrote as pen pals for two years and I dated for a while in probably the last Six months or so that he was out. I kind of stopped dating and was like I want to see where it goes when he comes home and

and then I gotta tell this part. Six days after I got back, we were engaged. That was pretty fast. Right. What's funny about that is in our church, we have an opportunity to like talk about our mission after like to share testimony and different things that we experienced for our congregation.

I never seen any other missionary do this, but while I was sharing about a month after I came home, I was like, and I'm engaged to

there was an audible gasp of the congregation. That he announced his engagement over the pulpit

as a return missionary Yeah, because you don't get a date as a missionary like you don't date at all You're just focused on helping people and it was a it was an awesome gasp It was probably the best audience reaction i've ever had and i've been in a lot of theatrical shows It was amazing.

I wish I had it recorded. It was so good.

That's awesome. Oh my god, that's a great story. Those last six months you had some high anticipation of him coming home. And he's obviously a very charismatic and influential guy that he talked you into that six days in.

Well, and I feel like the writing letters where it wasn't dating based, it was just getting to know each other. So we kind of had two years that where the relationship was kind of off the table. It was just things that we liked, things that we didn't like.

What's going on with your mission? Oh, tell me about your family. Like, it was just, we really did get to know each other really well through letters over two years. And then kind of got to see when he got home, if that spark was still there.

It was definitely still there. That's interesting. It's an interesting point for people is that it sounds like you really built An emotional connection, even though you weren't technically dating each other at that point, but you were still connecting on some level and Oh, yeah, kind of deepening that emotional connection and laying a foundation for what was about to come when he made it back home

One of the interesting things as well is we, we had these dorky little recorders that we would, we would record things.

I always did my best to like make her laugh any way that I could. But I tell like stupid jokes and different things just to see how we could connect. Right. It was kind of like voice. Voice texting before that was a thing.

Yeah, just like the mini cassettes. Yeah,

they were like tiny little things and you could only have like an hour.

So you had to be really selective with what you shared because you ran out of space really fast.

Right.

So, I would record, you know, over a two or three week period and then I'd send her that tape. Oh, tell her, tell her the story of your mishap with one of the tapes.

Oh, I don't know if you guys have ever had, like, UPS lose your mail or something.

There was one time, all I got in the mail was a little Ziploc baggie with the UPS label on it. That was like, sorry about your package, and there was like a few pieces of paper and like a ripped envelope. It's like

a

crime scene or something. It's crazy. We lost something.

So one of, so one of Brigham's tapes is out there somewhere?

Yep, somewhere. Somewhere. Somewhere, yep. Someone got that tape. Oh, that's hilarious.

Maybe you'll get it back someday. So you were engaged six days after you came home, built on this incredibly strong foundation of friendship that you've been cultivating over the two year period that you were gone.

How long after that did you get married?

About six months.

Wow.

So yeah, we were engaged in December and then married in May.

Brigham, were you an entrepreneur then? Or were you still teaching at that point?

Okay, so let's let's play Brigham history for a second. Perfect. I started off in high school very interested in leadership development. I was in a company the I think it was called MonaVie, but the whole thing that I was attracted to was their personal development side, which was called team.

Together everyone achieves more. And I, I probably read 50 to a hundred books about leadership while I was in high school. I never sold one of their products ever, which was really unfortunate, but it was a really good failure to, to say, wow, you actually need to like the product that you're selling to sell it.

It's a great lesson to learn. Cause I didn't, I, I drank their juice, but I was like, this is really expensive. 60 juice. I, I don't, I don't even know if I want to keep buying it, but I, it was so hard to sell that. I just never really got into that, but I love the personal development side. So I, I have that desire to be a speaker in high school and I had a desire to be a theater practitioner my whole life and actor and I was like, well, if I'm going to do anything, I want to be able to, to share great stories and be able to connect with people. So I was like, I'm focusing in on how do I be the best actor that I possibly can and grow that into a career.

And I went to college and I focused in on what, what does that mean? actually look like. And that's how we, we met was through theater and we've done tons of shows together and did professional theater for a time. But one of the things that, that I wasn't told early on, but I, I guess I, I had parents that hinted at it was you really need to make sure you're making money, not just making good stories.

I realized really quickly in Utah, it's very challenging to only be an actor and make money. Because it's called show business, not just show everybody what you're doing. So while I was going through that process, I was like, I need to figure out a way that I can make money. So I, I thought, well, what is the skill sets that I have?

I'm a really good storyteller. I enjoy teaching and I really love helping people. I was like, well, being a teacher makes sense. Then I have my summers open to do, do shows. I did that for seven years, but I realized really quickly that that vehicle was not going to get me where I wanted to go long term. So June, 2022.

That was two years ago now. That's crazy. I thought it was only a year ago. That was two years ago. I quit my teaching profession in public school, at least so that I could pursue being an entrepreneur. In 2019, I did my first short term rental and I've been growing a short term rental portfolio ever since then.

And we've got nine right now that that's kind of sustaining us, but that's not the thing that makes me happy. The thing that makes me happy, that makes me want to continue to, to help is being a speaker and a leader. So that is right now, the engine that is letting our car keep moving forward. And I'm building this engine of being a speaker now and an entrepreneur.

And I love solving great problems. So I'm just at the beginning of that speaking career. But you guys just watch. It's going to be awesome. I'm going to write great books. I'm going to have great courses. It's something that I've been talking about for years. with Greg Kimball supporting me, helped me get my podcast up and running, and now helped me figure out what I need to do to focus.

Cause that's been a little bit of a challenge to focus so that I can actually turn that dream into a reality. That's where I'm going. I'm really excited about it. And she's on in for the ride and she's a little scared at times, but I'm so grateful for her support. She's been the most supportive person.

That's amazing. And we have no doubt that it's going to be a show to watch as you, you know, climb the speaking ladder and let your light shine to the world. So we're excited to have front row seats to that. You brought up where she's been super supportive.

She's been there with me, my rock beside me as we've gone on this crazy journey. And we know that entrepreneurship is not for the faint of heart. There's, there's ups and downs and it's,

it's a rollercoaster at times.

Yeah,

it's, it's pretty terrifying at times. Yeah, she has been there beside me the whole time.

Yeah, so how do you, how do you guys balance those, those demands of, you know, your marriage, but also the day to day of managing your business?

Because you also have a few kids, right? You also,

yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Four.

Four.

A handful.

Only a few, right? And what ages are they?

11, 8, 4, and 8 months. So,

you've got

loads of time.

Yeah, we've got quite a span.

Yeah, so you've got a lot going on at home, right? Like, four kids is bonkers for me. There's a lot going on. And, like, little tiny ones. Like, you've got a whole range of them. And you've got the business over here on this side. And then you've also got kids. So all of those things require a lot of time, attention, energy, focus.

What works for you two? How do you balance all of that so that you, you know, take care of the family, take care of the business, but also still manage to find time for each other? How do you do that?

I'd say starting off The first thing I think of is just our both of our mindset towards each other about it that there there have been times in the past where We had conversations and I told him that I you know, I don't think you're happy.

He had more time, you know, he would go to work and come home and we had lots of time together, but he wasn't feeling fulfilled or necessarily enjoying as much what he, what he was doing. And now, even though we have a little bit less time, he feels like he's doing what he was, he's working towards what he's supposed to be doing and simply Seeing that make him so much happier, really helps with that time.

So, and knowing that he, that he is enjoying what he is doing kind of bleeds into the family time as well. That happiness bleeds into the family time as well. So I feel like we have more that's the word I'm looking for, more, yeah, more quality time together and.

And just communicating a lot with schedules and what's going on. I mean, we're still not great at it. We try and ask every single morning. Hey, what does your day look like? Every single evening. Hey, what does tomorrow look like? And just when we pass, Hey, what's going on? You know, just to kind of constantly check in because especially, I mean, being an entrepreneur it changes regularly. Like he could have a schedule one evening, but by the time he wakes up, Oh, this changed and this changed. And, and then, Oh, I had a phone call. I thought you were doing this, just kidding. This changed. And so just trying to constantly communicate.

One of the things about balance that I think is really helpful is knowing that we're both 100 percent committed.

And that was something that I felt like I, I came into this relationship so hard committed that it scared her at first, but it endeared me to her later because when I say I love you, I am here forever. She knows it. And that commitment is something that I think marriage is so key for, because if, if you have someone that's only partially committed, they're not fully there, they didn't fully commit. I mean, maybe they have a leg in the, in the pool, but they don't have their whole body. And. I like the analogy of you have to go a hundred percent on both ends. If you've got a bridge on one side and they go 95% and the other side goes 95%, that bridge is still gonna collapse.

Mm-Hmm, .

But if I go a hundred percent and then she goes a hundred percent, then thanks for being my, my my bridge. We can actually survive. And I think the difference between someone that gets divorced and someone that stays together, they have the same problems. Almost always you have the same problems.

It's, are you committed to solving them together? And I think that's one of the ways that we find, find balance. I love David A Bednar. He talks about balance is a myth. Because he's like, well, every element of your life is like a spinning plate and you get that one plate spin as fast as you can. You're like, all right, now you go to the next plate and you spin it and you get it going.

You're like, oh, there's a marriage and spin that plate. Oh, got to come back to this one and spin it again. And you just keep getting those, those plates spinning. But you're bouncing back and forth and you just have to be where you're at in that moment. And maybe you're spinning the marriage plate, maybe you're spinning the family plate, maybe you're spinning the work plate.

But you have to choose in that moment, because if you're trying to spin two plates at once, what happens? You break both the plates. So you have to like hold the stick and then you spin that plate and you make sure it's going and then You can do the next thing and I think part of that i'm not perfect at this guys.

I'm talking to myself, too but part of that is being intentional with your your mindset your skill set and your tool set in every Compartmentalized part of your life.

I think the other thing that helps is both of us recognizing that we're You Always a work in progress that neither one of us is like, no, I'm good at this.

You're the one that needs to be better. No, I know I've got this figured out. You're the one that needs to figure this out. Like remembering that both of us are trying and as good as we communicate, we can do better. As good as we're planning, we can do better as good as, and just kind of giving each other that, that grace that we are, okay, we failed this time, but we're trying.

Yeah. That's so good. There's a lot of gold nuggets in there.

I haven't taken notes because you guys dropped a lot of gold there and I want to do a quick recap in case anybody missed it. The first thing that Belinda said that resonated so much for me and for us, I think Was the fulfillment, the, that Brigham is lit up from the inside doing what he loves to do as opposed to feeling His light dimmed doing something he wasn't fulfilled with which I mean especially for you But for both of us coming out of our corporate jobs, We had that same feeling like we're unfulfilled like we had a lot of time to spend But the same situation as you, you weren't content in your life.

So there was that sort of discontent inside of you that would come out. When you're on your path, doing something that you love to be doing and feeling fulfilled in what you do, you're lit up from the inside and that's a contagious light that shines. Throughout all aspects of your life.

So I think that's almost like the foundation for creating the happy marriage, the happy family, the happy self is to feel that sense of contribution and fulfillment in what you're doing and you can bring that to everybody else. I thought that was a like a huge gold nugget of just awareness to kick things off.

The second thing I heard Belinda say was the communication, but specifically the check ins. We are giant fans of checking in. I love the morning check in, especially for business entrepreneurs because to your point, spoke in the wheel, like things change. And so what's the day look like? When are we going to get to connect over a walk? When are we going to get to do this today? What's your day look like? Just having a good sense of what the day looks like. So you've kind of got expectations set. And then the end of day check in I also love. It's my favorite one actually, the end of day check in.

Those check ins are important for the logistics and all the things, but they're also sort of like a secret message that, I care about what your day looks like, I want to make sure I'm involved in it, I care about how it went, I want to make sure you know that I care, like those check in questions, beyond just the actual infrastructure of communication, are the way to

Emotionally connect.

Emotionally connect and include each other in your days, and so I think those are so, so important.

The next thing I heard was from Brigham when he was saying the commitment. 100%. And having that, knowing that that person's there, they're committed.

So even when craziness happens, life comes at us fast, entrepreneurship comes at us fast. You can rest easy knowing that this part of the life or our relationship is, we've nurtured it. We've taken that, that opportunity to make sure that we're both committed and there for each other. And so that there's a less, added stress because you've taken that time to develop that foundation in your relationship.

So it helps other aspects of your life. You can now give more energy to, to your entrepreneurship or whatever it is because you know that Belinda's got your back.

Yeah. It's like this, this trust, it takes this weight off that like, I know they're there. Even if you're going through a season of difficulty or, some hard days, Maybe you don't agree on the path to get somewhere.

You have your North Star that you're trying to get to. You may not always agree every day on the exact route to take for that day. So some days are harder than others, but there's that intrinsic trust that They are there. He is there, she is there, no matter how we disagree on this, or no matter what the kids have done, that human is there for me no matter what happens, and I loved how you pointed out the difference between people who get divorced and who don't get divorced, we all have the same issue.

We all deal with the same stuff. It's the trust and the commitment to figuring out the way through. 'cause there is always a way through it. It's just

how committed are you?

How committed are you to figuring it out, to getting the help, to talking to the people. Like there people have what you want, that thriving marriage, that successful business. People have that. And if you're going through a season of difficulty, it's. How committed are you to getting through that season of difficulty and to the other side? Because there's always an other side if you're willing to be committed enough to put the work in to get there.

And so I loved that. And then I loved what you said around being where your freaking feet are. A lot of times we think our most important resource is our time, but our most important resource is actually our attention. So you can spend all the time together in the world, but if you're not actually being where your feet are, being present in the moment, giving your 100 percent attention, spinning one plate at a time, giving all your attention to that one plate, you're going to break the plate.

And so being in the moment with your kid. With your wife, with your business, wherever you happen to be, it's that dedicated attention. Like, that was liquid gold coming out of you. And then the last part from Belinda.

Was it liquid?

I don't know. Maybe it was a gold nugget. A little bit of spit

going out there, right?

That was probably from me, right?

The last thing I heard Belinda say was you're both works in progress and that you share the accountability. You share the need for growth. You share grace with each other.

Offering each other the benefit of the doubt.

100%.

Yeah. Knowing that you're both trying, you're both doing the absolute best you can.

Showing up as your best selves every day. What your best is on that day. The best we have for that day. And just knowing that that person is, is, is showing up as best they can. And yeah, they're human beings. They make mistakes and just offering that grace is so important.

I share a quick pattern. Interrupt,

of course. Okay. So I get distracted very easily. Right. And this week alone, I was playing pickleball twice. One of the times where we had a communication breakdown I forgot to tell my wife, I was going to go play pickleball after the gym because I didn't think to tell her, which is.

Don't do that, but I was playing for I was gonna be like an hour. It ended up being like two and a half and I mean it happens pickleball is fun. It's so fun. It's so much fun I know and I was I was focused on just crushing it. I was doing really well and But Belinda is on the ball and she calls me. She's like, what are you doing?

You need to get to work. You need to freaking focus on things. I was like, Oh, I've been exercising slash playing pickleball for four hours total. Cause I went to the gym and then I went and played pickleball. Yeah. I need to get to work today. I should probably do that now. So sometimes in those little breakdowns and communication, you have these little takeaways.

And now when I go play pickleball, I text her, can I go play pickleball please?

Not even asking permission. Just in a check in.

I guess not asking permission.

Letting me know.

Yeah. Let her know. Do those little check ins.

Yeah.

One of the check ins I think is really fun with us that we do every single day. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. As long as we don't forget, like most of the time.

Isn't that how it always is? I do it all the time. I do it all the time,

except for when I don't. So, with the exception of the exceptions, we do it all the time.

At 11. 11 we will text where, like one of us, whoever remembers first, will say, Hey, I love you. In whatever way we can and that's one of those things that has meant the world to me I mean it it sometimes takes five seconds but if she gets a little text from me or I get a text from her it means the world because Yes, we we said we loved each other when we were married.

It doesn't ever hurt to say I love you There's zero bad things that will come from that.

That time that 11 11 time is something that kind of became a thing because of Brigham's family. If either of us sees that time I know you have an alarm set on your phone generally to go off at that time But it's just kind of and I love you reminder, I guess.

I'll give you the context for that. My my brother who passed away a few years ago he used to write a lot of poems and He had schizophrenia, he did have some challenges as far as being able to associate with other people in his later years. And one of the things I thought was very endearing with his poetry was anytime there was an L, he would put a 1.

And his expression, unconditional love, Unconditional love has four Ls in it. So at 1111,

unconditional love to all.

Unconditional love, love to all. Thank you. Yes. I can spell . Unconditional love to all

has four Ls. It has four L

1111, and that was one of his poems, and it became more meaningful at 11, 11 to say, I love you because of that little expression.

The way that Brad shared it with me, he shared it with our family, he shared it with anybody that he was around at 11 11 every single day. And it doesn't matter if you even know him. If you say, hey, I love you to a stranger, what's the worst they're gonna say? Like, weirdo? You're like, yeah, that's fine.

Right? But, it means something to us. And it's been something we're doing. Sorry, I didn't mean

to get off course. You're good. No, you're

good. Hey, we're on the road to life right now, and sometimes the detours are the most fun parts. They usually are. I agree. Speaking of detours, oh, I was thinking about a story that we should share because I have never shared it online and it's tragic, but also really funny.

Do you remember when my aunt passed away and I drove separate from you to the funeral?

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh

is the correct answer. This is Linda's

like, oh no.

Oh!

It was just, it was just a very long day. It's the worst

road story we ever heard. We've ever experienced, I think. So here it goes. You ready?

Cause it was a hot summer day. It was really, I think it's related ish. Cause it was like a hundred degrees outside. We were driving maybe even like 110, but it was so hot. My, my hands.

Separately because we had to pick up a car from the shop on the way.

Yeah. Cause it got fixed. Anyway we drove it about 30 miles.

And the car that was fixed, they forgot to put oil back in it. So when that happens, a car without oil is like a human without water. It kind of like shrivels up and then smoke happens and like, like flames. Anyway, it, it like boiled the, the water and all the different things are in. I don't even know what all those fluids are called.

I'm not a mechanic guy, but it was boiling and it was steaming. And we're like, I killed the car. I don't, I don't, we

were on the way to a funeral. And so I get

there, I

will pick you up. We will keep going. We'll get it. We'll figure it out on the way home. We're gonna be late

So we pull over in spanish fork and i'm just waiting until belinda gets there and i'm fuming almost like that car's gonna say I Paid them so much money to get my car fixed and it's not fixed and I was frustrated They were driving in our car and it's a hot day.

I think I remember this because it was so like Sticky hot and waiting. It was probably only a half an hour that I was waiting in the sun, sitting in a hot car is actually hotter than sitting outside the car. So I was not even in the car, but I was drenched in sweat, going to a funeral, smelling to high heaven.

I get in the car and she's like, had a rough time? And I was like, yeah, a really rough time. But the air conditioning helps a little bit. I'm still like pitted out in my, in my suit and stuff, which is gross, but didn't have a change of clothes. We, we get almost to

the

exit and this car starts like having these awful groaning sounds.

And I was like, what is wrong with our vehicle? And it just like, it. I I, I don't know. We may not be exit. We may not be exit, but the battery gets

done.

It just like it gave up the ghost, it died and we had to just keep pulling over and starting the car. And then it would light up for a second. Like, okay, we can do this.

And then we'd get on the road and it, and then the car would die. And what happens when the battery dies is the. The steering is no longer power steering. So it's like, you're like going really hard. So we got over to the side and the last two or so miles were extremely stressful, but we get into this gas station about 10 miles from where we're supposed to go.

And. The funeral's already started. So we know no people that are close by that can come help. I mean, we did have

family at the funeral. Yeah, we

had like

50 people at the funeral,

but it's a funeral. They are not looking at their phone. So I'm calling every single person I can think of. I'm texting them.

Hey, we're stranded here. Can anyone come get us? We're in a tiny little town that doesn't have good reception to like even get an Uber or something. We have all our kids with us. So it's sweaty and we're tired and frustrated. And then after that breakdown. My sister in law, she's like, Oh, I saw your 12 texts.

I'll come pick you up. We need to get two trips back there. We miss most of the funeral. And. After we get our car situation figured out or there at the funeral, I'm like, that was an awful experience. My aunt had died. Both cars had passed away as well. It was just, is that the wrong way to say it? They, they had given up the ghost.

However you want to say it, both cars were no longer with us.

The vehicle

had gone and we're like, how do we get home now? Because, shoot. Literally we're hours from home and nobody else planned on having passengers. And we, we had a lot of kids, like divvy up the kids, like you're playing Uno or something,

trying to figure out this situation. It's like, it's kind of late now. And we just drop our car off at this random mechanic shop. And we're like, hopefully they can fix it tomorrow. Cause nobody's there right now. I call the guy at their late number. They're like, yeah, we'll get to it by Monday. I was like, Oh, okay.

And we drive home. And on the way home, I, I just have this idea. I was like, well, if, if this is the worst that it can get, man, life's going to be great because it wasn't, it wasn't that bad in the moment. Awful, absolutely awful, sweaty, drenched, smelly missed the nice parts of the funeral and got the sad parts of the funeral.

And man, sometimes life, life's you in a way that. You have both your cars break down and everything feels like it is just broken. But after the funeral, on our drive home, we all got home, we were healthy, we had our kids, nobody was hurt. Literally, the cars died, but we were fine. And a lot of times it's the way we think about those situations.

That dictate whether or not it's good or bad and now I would say that's a really funny story That was awful to live through but when you have time and pain that turns into a good story.

Yeah,

and That's part of the way that I think that marriage is is You will have moments where your cars break down where you feel like everything is going against you

But

then you look around and you're like, I'm still with the one I love.

I'm here because I chose to be here and I'm committed to being on this road of life, even though both of our cars broke down and now we have to hitchhike like hobos. It's okay. Because you have each other because we have each other and we're just like holding hands, which I get no

So true, it's all about perspective right that could that day could have been so much It was bad as it was but could have been so much worse if both of your attitudes were any Different than what they were that day going with the flow made it so much easier than had you been at each other. Stress happens and it's easy sometimes to, fall below and not rise above, let that impact you and take you completely off course.

So it's a really cool story.

Yeah. It's funny. Cause I was thinking when you started this story, I'm like, Ooh, I want to ask them. How they get through the hard days, right? Because this is a hard day that they are experiencing. And entrepreneurship, it brings hard days.

Marriage brings hard days. We, we all have just days that are harder. How do you two sort of pull each other through those hard days so that they don't cascade?

When I was younger, I used to think that having a good life means it was good days.

Having a good marriage means we don't fight having good kids means they don't do things wrong. And recognizing over time that just, just because bad things happen, just because you have a bad day. Doesn't mean it's all bad and there's going to be both of those things. And sometimes listening to personal development things, I sometimes would get the idea that they have it figured out and they can stop themselves before, when I think a lot of times what it actually is, is we make a mistake, but we're aware that we made a mistake so that we can do better next time, even if we just don't make as bad of a mistake. And then over time slowly get better.

I think with those bad days, it's, it's taking those little steps and going, Hey, I maybe didn't handle this as well as I could have. How can we talk about it honestly and learn how to do better next time? Because if we just shove it under and go, it was fine. But if we actually go, no, I didn't handle this well.

Why didn't I handle this well? And how can I do it better next time? Because we, I mean, we definitely, I definitely fly off the handle sometimes. And I. Trying to figure out what those, what those things are.

One of the ways that I think we deal with hard times is. We focus on what are the controllables or the things we actually can do. I've, I've heard multiple people. Most of the time it was in a sports reference, but even in personal development, if you can control the controllables, the things that you have an ability to move the needle on.

Then what are you worrying about all the other things? Worry is just praying for your problems to come true Heard greg say that i've heard so many people say that and you think about the things that we focus on in large And the things that we want if if we are always focusing on those those challenges, they're going to persist in our life They're going to stick around but if we say oh, here's the challenge.

What are my other obstacles? How do I get around this and we focus on a solution rather than just the challenge? Then we will find ways around it. This is one of the things we have in common. We were actors in theater and one of the things that's so important as an actor is you have this intention.

You're like, hey, I need to go from this side of the stage to this side. Well, how do I motivate that? Now, what's the obstacle that's stopping me from going from here to there? All right. What are tactics that I can use to get over that obstacle, through that obstacle, around that obstacle, use the obstacle to catapult and jump over it.

There's so many different ways that you can do that. You can use the obstacle because the way to what you want is through around or using that obstacle. And that's where your choices come in. Go ahead.

I think accepting the obstacle for what it is. A lot of times I think there, there are bad days that I have where I just get caught up in the obstacle and that it's there and that, well, I don't want to go over it.

I don't want to go around it. I don't want to go through it. I don't want like, I don't want the obstacle to be there. Okay. It is. So,

deal with it. Congrats.

You stated it. We don't either. But just acknowledging that it is what it is. And, and being okay with that.

You're

not judging yourself for having the obstacle, saying, I have faith that we will get through this together.

Because together you can do so much more than you can as an individual. There's a synergy that happens. There's not like one plus one equals zero. Two in a marriage one plus one equals six in our case, but Not six kids No, it's good. No, six total, but it really does come down to how do you multiply your efforts is you do things together?

Like I remember teaching history There was this this example of an indian chief who took an arrow and he like snaps the arrow to his braves He's like individuals by themselves are easy to break You But then he goes and he gets all of these arrows and he brings them together. And I don't have enough to actually make this point make sense, but they're going to pretend like this, a ton of arrows.

He's like, but all of us together are unbreakable. And I think together, well, that was six. It was like an exact six. I think, bam, all of us together, we can, we can be unbreakable. But individually were very easily broken.

I hope

that analogy made sense with the stand ins of my colored pencils and my markers rather than arrows.

Yes, that's the idea. It was perfect.

Well, it was perfect. I, I think those are really important reframes and perspectives. Belinda's starting it off with reframing what does good even mean? What is, what is a bad day? What is a good kid? What is a good marriage?

Resetting expectations for yourself on your life is so important because to your point, a good marriage does not mean you never fight. In fact, probably the opposite, right? if you never disagree with someone, it's not probably because you're so in sync, and you're so aligned, and everything is so perfect.

It's probably because one of you is not actually sharing who you actually are, because no two people are identical regardless of who they are.

Can I share a theatrical example really quick? Yes! At the end of this.

Okay.

Okay, so Nora and Torvald. What was the name of that play? Anyway,

Doll's House?

Doll's House, yes. So The Doll's House by George Bernard Shaw. They're Is this awful relationship that is, is brought up in this amazing play. This lady, she's basically caged her entire life. She can't have candy, she can't go out and do different things. She is Torvald's little bird.

She's his

doll. His doll.

In the doll's house. Playing

mom, playing life. Yeah.

And they never really have Any communication that is more than surface level. They have kids they have a model marriage It looks beautiful on paper. They're in a gorgeous house. Everything looks perfect however, the undercurrent of their relationship is indifference They're not connected and you see the way that Nora responds to Torvald in comparison to how Nora talks to her best friend who she's hiding how she goes and she gets treats, these little candies and she's hiding who she is and how she wants to speak out.

So at the very end of this, they break up. And in that argument is the first time that they are able to actually have a conversation. She's like, this is the first time you've spoke to me as a human being and not as your little bird or as your little doll. And I think in marriage, the way that you communicate and the way you actually have heart to heart conversations, that is what is going to make you successful.

Oh, I think it's Henrik Ibsen, isn't it? Dang it! I

was double checking. I was like, I don't think it's Berger and Shah. Thank you so much.

I was, I just had that thought too. I was like, no, that's an Ibsen. Thank you. You're welcome. See, this is how we're connected. That's why I was like, I don't think it's Shah.

I was

like, I don't think it's Shah.

Thank you for correcting me. You didn't even have to look it all the way up. I remembered it though. But Sorry for the misquote. It wasn't George Bernard Shaw, although there is some really good things that he wrote, right? You don't have to be perfect, but one of the things I've learned from that story is have real conversations.

They could have saved their marriage early on. If they actually communicated and opened up and he treated her and she treated him The way they wanted to be treated and they were equal help meets They were people that were in it together rather than you're my doll and now i'm gonna do all my business I'm gonna do all the other stuff That's not how our relationship is and if it ever is like that I want her to you know, take the doll and hit me with it So wake up and be like brigham.

You're being dumb. I'm like, I know Sorry, sorry and we fix it

Yeah, it's such a. Such a good point, and so many people shy away from conversations where you're being yourself, right, where you're sharing some of that stuff that either you're afraid of, or you're, you know, you're uncomfortable with, those are, those are, that creates discomfort, those are uncomfortable conversations sometimes if you're sharing something that maybe you know is not going to be agreed with, like you're sharing a part of yourself that maybe you're a bit nervous of sharing, like those, Those are uncomfortable conversations, but they're so necessary because if we in a marriage avoid that uncomfortable conversation in the moment and not share that thing, so therefore we're hiding a little piece of us, we're covering a piece of ourselves, we're putting up a wall, like a brick in the wall between us every single time we choose short term comfort, which really, in the end, is going to create long term dysfunction in your marriage, because, when you get to that point where you're not sharing any of yourself, because that's the road you head down, right? Every time you decide to not share the thing, not have that momentarily uncomfortable conversation, another brick, another brick, another brick, until you're fully Walled off and then that conversation becomes so impossible in your brain to have that you've got a completely Dysfunctional communication between you where you're only talking about the surface level when to your point Marriages can be saved by being willing to have that uncomfortable Argument sometimes that we just we just don't want to have because we're so afraid of that Discomfort in the moment that we're willing to live with the discomfort of that For for long periods of time. Of like that

idea of getting to the bottom of something

You

know if if you're only having the surface level get cleaned as far as like a i'm gonna give an analogy of like a A vessel maybe like a cup if you only clean the outside of it You drink that cup and suddenly it's kind of gross.

I got, we, we have our daughter learning how to, you know, do the dishes right now, a little tricksy. She's adorable. Sometimes she, she misses little parts. There's little bits of food and we're like, okay, wash this again before I drink from it. But if you get to the bottom of things and you actually take care of the root source, the issue, you clean it up, then you can have confidence you're moving forward in the right direction, but if you don't you take that off the shelf. You're like, do I dare drink out of this? Okay. Yeah Right hesitancy there. Yeah, but if you actually deal with the challenge There's competence that we're moving forward.

Yeah, I love it

You talked about a relationship, not so much a rule, but like a tradition that you have with the 11 11 and texting each other wherever you are in the world, I love you. Do you have any relationship rules or any non negotiables in your marriage?

We do. We don't joke about divorce.

We have a lot of friends that it's a point of joking or anytime they're even slightly upset. It's, Oh, don't make me move out. We don't joke that way. That's off the table.

And that comes out of the commitment. And we've been doing that for 13 years.

We've been very consistent. I mean, I have lots of people in my life that joke about it and I don't laugh at those jokes intentionally because what you laugh at, what you say, Oh man, that's so funny, actually gets encouraged as far as behavior. And for us, we, we don't want to joke about marriage. We we're okay to joke about funny things But that's one of those that we're we're in it for forever we chose to say You are mine and i'm yours.

I I am in this and even when it's hard when you're driving on a back road and You know, your wife says, Hey, just take the main road and you, you're like, it's not even that muddy. It's fine. And you take the back road and you get your car stuck for a couple of hours and you're covered in mud. You're committed even in the muck and you have your cousin in the back seat and her friend and you have to now wash the inside of your car, all those little experiences.

And if you guys want the rest of that story, go to my podcast, level up with you guys. But Oh my goodness. Listen to each other and be committed because she knows way better than I do on most things And because we're committed to each other even when it's hard It's sometimes very difficult like when I make a stupid choice to say I chose him I I know it's hard for her, but she chose me and she loves me and I appreciate it.

So I don't know if anyone missed that but Brigham has told that story on his podcast It was actually the episode that we were on episode. What number was that? 13 14. It was I

don't know It was early for

craig and yeah Yeah, it's the leveling up podcast brigham blackham

back in february ish 2024 or something like that.

Go

look for it Yeah, it's a cool story. He's got lots of cool stories on that podcast. So go check it out I

love that rule.

Yeah, that's amazing. I

think that's a very Simple thing people can start to do. The end of our marriage is just not funny. Like, it's not going to happen.

We don't want to joke about it. Let's just remove that from the universe. I think that's a very simple strategy anyone can start right now that will actually make a big difference just from the perspective shift. So Thank you. That was a, that was a really great little tip. Yeah, absolutely. Brigham, why don't you tell us a little, you just brought up the podcast.

business? Tell us a bit more about you, the business owner.

Absolutely. So I am focused in on growing this leveling up with Brigham Blackham podcast. I, I really love interviewing business owners and sharing patterns of progress, sharing tools, insights personal development and business development ideas to help You get from where you are to the next level.

And as I've been doing this, I really started in in 2019 with my first short term rental. And ever since, since then, I've been focusing on how do I get a little better? What is the thing that's going to move the needle? Where's that progress that is needing to happen? And I started off in short term rentals.

I've got nine of them right now, which is. is still the thing that's sustaining us, but I'm growing my business as a speaker. So I, I'm happy to to get on more stages and just booked one yesterday, which is kind of exciting, but it all comes down to, I want to help top leaders be the very best versions of themselves to live into their potential and to create opportunities, not just for myself, but for other people to live into who they want to be.

And I'm doing that through speaking. I'm going to be writing books. I, the only book I've written so far besides our little project that we did together was leveling up your social media. It's a little 36 page book about how to grow your social media and your marketing. And I, I'm going to keep writing a lot more, keep speaking a lot more and give as much opportunity as I can for people to take some of the thoughts that I've, I've been able to have in some of the experiences and the stories and be able to apply to their own lives.

And that's, that's my passion. So I'm going to keep doing it. And I have so much fun doing it that I hope it's infectious. Cause one of the things that I love about enthusiasm is one of the only emotions that is completely transferable. Yeah, so I'm gonna confirm it

is infectious I think that people can really I know I can See the passion like I can hear it.

I can see the passion that you have for it. So where can people find you welcome back to the road of life podcast with MacKay and Bennett. And this week we are super pumped because we've got two really fantastic guests with us today.

We actually had the pleasure of Being guests on Brigham's podcast way back in February. And Brigham is, I mean, Brigham is a charismatic guy. Storyteller. Fantastic storyteller with infectious energy. He's incredibly easy to talk to and spend time with and so we're obviously pleased to have him. But we're even more excited to get to have his wife Belinda on the show with us too.

We have the pleasure of welcoming Belinda to her first ever podcast and we're so grateful she chose to do that with us today. So, huge thank you Belinda for joining us here today and trusting us to speak to everybody about the fabulous relationship that you and Brigham have together.

And so, just wanted to say a big thank you to both of you for being here. Yeah,

absolutely. It's a pleasure. Excited to be here.

Let's get right into it and ask how did you two meet and tell us a bit about your family.

Ladies first.

Oh, thanks. Well, we met at auditions for a play in college, actually.

I leaned over to my friend and I was like, who is that? Cause he walked in and sat right next to her. And so I asked who he was and apparently he did the same thing.

Yeah. When she was up, I was like,

who is that?

And she was like, right in between us.

She was the cream filling of our Oreo for a time. Yeah.

We met that way. We dated for kind of dated on and off for a few months and

we say on and off now. I feel like I need to have this cause it hurt me a whole lot more than it hurt her.

He's very intense.

I'm really intense. Okay. I, we, we started dating and I told her that I loved her like within a month and she's like, okay. All right. Within a month I softened it.

Okay. A week and a half after we met,

I told her I loved her and she's like, we're done. I don't even know you guy. So we were broken up for a couple of weeks during the rehearsal process and we got back together during the performance.

Yeah, it was really fun making out backstage. So, I mean, that was great. And then we did not miss any cues though. So we were very professional ish. That was before my mission. That was before I served over in Taiwan. So we had four months of basically courting before I left for two years.

How did that go that, 'cause you're, I mean you're still relatively into this relationship new, it's been four months and now

relatively into it. He's in love with her.

Yeah.

She's not so sure she's not, but she may not be there yet. I don't know. In the first week and a half she was, and I don't know, but four months.

But at some point Brigham leaves. How? Walk us through that.

Well actually that played a factor in the beginning. And why him saying, I love you, scared me so much is because we knew his mission was coming and so he got really, really intense, really fast and it kind of scared me. I went, you have a two year mission ahead of you and I don't want to just wait around for two years, you know, and so that's why it kind of freaked me out and And I was like, okay, we're done.

This is just, this is too much. You still have a mission. We're done. But we did still really like each other. And so right before his mission, we actually kind of mutually decided that we were going to be pen pals, but we were, we were broken up and I was still going to date other people. And he told me, don't tell me about any guys.

I only want to hear if you're getting married. And so we wrote as pen pals for two years and I dated for a while in probably the last Six months or so that he was out. I kind of stopped dating and was like I want to see where it goes when he comes home and

and then I gotta tell this part. Six days after I got back, we were engaged. That was pretty fast. Right. What's funny about that is in our church, we have an opportunity to like talk about our mission after like to share testimony and different things that we experienced for our congregation.

I never seen any other missionary do this, but while I was sharing about a month after I came home, I was like, and I'm engaged to

there was an audible gasp of the congregation. That he announced his engagement over the pulpit

as a return missionary Yeah, because you don't get a date as a missionary like you don't date at all You're just focused on helping people and it was a it was an awesome gasp It was probably the best audience reaction i've ever had and i've been in a lot of theatrical shows It was amazing.

I wish I had it recorded. It was so good.

That's awesome. Oh my god, that's a great story. Those last six months you had some high anticipation of him coming home. And he's obviously a very charismatic and influential guy that he talked you into that six days in.

Well, and I feel like the writing letters where it wasn't dating based, it was just getting to know each other. So we kind of had two years that where the relationship was kind of off the table. It was just things that we liked, things that we didn't like.

What's going on with your mission? Oh, tell me about your family. Like, it was just, we really did get to know each other really well through letters over two years. And then kind of got to see when he got home, if that spark was still there.

It was definitely still there. That's interesting. It's an interesting point for people is that it sounds like you really built An emotional connection, even though you weren't technically dating each other at that point, but you were still connecting on some level and Oh, yeah, kind of deepening that emotional connection and laying a foundation for what was about to come when he made it back home

One of the interesting things as well is we, we had these dorky little recorders that we would, we would record things.

I always did my best to like make her laugh any way that I could. But I tell like stupid jokes and different things just to see how we could connect. Right. It was kind of like voice. Voice texting before that was a thing.

Yeah, just like the mini cassettes. Yeah,

they were like tiny little things and you could only have like an hour.

So you had to be really selective with what you shared because you ran out of space really fast.

Right.

So, I would record, you know, over a two or three week period and then I'd send her that tape. Oh, tell her, tell her the story of your mishap with one of the tapes.

Oh, I don't know if you guys have ever had, like, UPS lose your mail or something.

There was one time, all I got in the mail was a little Ziploc baggie with the UPS label on it. That was like, sorry about your package, and there was like a few pieces of paper and like a ripped envelope. It's like

a

crime scene or something. It's crazy. We lost something.

So one of, so one of Brigham's tapes is out there somewhere?

Yep, somewhere. Somewhere. Somewhere, yep. Someone got that tape. Oh, that's hilarious.

Maybe you'll get it back someday. So you were engaged six days after you came home, built on this incredibly strong foundation of friendship that you've been cultivating over the two year period that you were gone.

How long after that did you get married?

About six months.

Wow.

So yeah, we were engaged in December and then married in May.

Brigham, were you an entrepreneur then? Or were you still teaching at that point?

Okay, so let's let's play Brigham history for a second. Perfect. I started off in high school very interested in leadership development. I was in a company the I think it was called MonaVie, but the whole thing that I was attracted to was their personal development side, which was called team.

Together everyone achieves more. And I, I probably read 50 to a hundred books about leadership while I was in high school. I never sold one of their products ever, which was really unfortunate, but it was a really good failure to, to say, wow, you actually need to like the product that you're selling to sell it.

It's a great lesson to learn. Cause I didn't, I, I drank their juice, but I was like, this is really expensive. 60 juice. I, I don't, I don't even know if I want to keep buying it, but I, it was so hard to sell that. I just never really got into that, but I love the personal development side. So I, I have that desire to be a speaker in high school and I had a desire to be a theater practitioner my whole life and actor and I was like, well, if I'm going to do anything, I want to be able to, to share great stories and be able to connect with people. So I was like, I'm focusing in on how do I be the best actor that I possibly can and grow that into a career.

And I went to college and I focused in on what, what does that mean? actually look like. And that's how we, we met was through theater and we've done tons of shows together and did professional theater for a time. But one of the things that, that I wasn't told early on, but I, I guess I, I had parents that hinted at it was you really need to make sure you're making money, not just making good stories.

I realized really quickly in Utah, it's very challenging to only be an actor and make money. Because it's called show business, not just show everybody what you're doing. So while I was going through that process, I was like, I need to figure out a way that I can make money. So I, I thought, well, what is the skill sets that I have?

I'm a really good storyteller. I enjoy teaching and I really love helping people. I was like, well, being a teacher makes sense. Then I have my summers open to do, do shows. I did that for seven years, but I realized really quickly that that vehicle was not going to get me where I wanted to go long term. So June, 2022.

That was two years ago now. That's crazy. I thought it was only a year ago. That was two years ago. I quit my teaching profession in public school, at least so that I could pursue being an entrepreneur. In 2019, I did my first short term rental and I've been growing a short term rental portfolio ever since then.

And we've got nine right now that that's kind of sustaining us, but that's not the thing that makes me happy. The thing that makes me happy, that makes me want to continue to, to help is being a speaker and a leader. So that is right now, the engine that is letting our car keep moving forward. And I'm building this engine of being a speaker now and an entrepreneur.

And I love solving great problems. So I'm just at the beginning of that speaking career. But you guys just watch. It's going to be awesome. I'm going to write great books. I'm going to have great courses. It's something that I've been talking about for years. with Greg Kimball supporting me, helped me get my podcast up and running, and now helped me figure out what I need to do to focus.

Cause that's been a little bit of a challenge to focus so that I can actually turn that dream into a reality. That's where I'm going. I'm really excited about it. And she's on in for the ride and she's a little scared at times, but I'm so grateful for her support. She's been the most supportive person.

That's amazing. And we have no doubt that it's going to be a show to watch as you, you know, climb the speaking ladder and let your light shine to the world. So we're excited to have front row seats to that. You brought up where she's been super supportive.

She's been there with me, my rock beside me as we've gone on this crazy journey. And we know that entrepreneurship is not for the faint of heart. There's, there's ups and downs and it's,

it's a rollercoaster at times.

Yeah,

it's, it's pretty terrifying at times. Yeah, she has been there beside me the whole time.

Yeah, so how do you, how do you guys balance those, those demands of, you know, your marriage, but also the day to day of managing your business?

Because you also have a few kids, right? You also,

yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Four.

Four.

A handful.

Only a few, right? And what ages are they?

11, 8, 4, and 8 months. So,

you've got

loads of time.

Yeah, we've got quite a span.

Yeah, so you've got a lot going on at home, right? Like, four kids is bonkers for me. There's a lot going on. And, like, little tiny ones. Like, you've got a whole range of them. And you've got the business over here on this side. And then you've also got kids. So all of those things require a lot of time, attention, energy, focus.

What works for you two? How do you balance all of that so that you, you know, take care of the family, take care of the business, but also still manage to find time for each other? How do you do that?

I'd say starting off The first thing I think of is just our both of our mindset towards each other about it that there there have been times in the past where We had conversations and I told him that I you know, I don't think you're happy.

He had more time, you know, he would go to work and come home and we had lots of time together, but he wasn't feeling fulfilled or necessarily enjoying as much what he, what he was doing. And now, even though we have a little bit less time, he feels like he's doing what he was, he's working towards what he's supposed to be doing and simply Seeing that make him so much happier, really helps with that time.

So, and knowing that he, that he is enjoying what he is doing kind of bleeds into the family time as well. That happiness bleeds into the family time as well. So I feel like we have more that's the word I'm looking for, more, yeah, more quality time together and.

And just communicating a lot with schedules and what's going on. I mean, we're still not great at it. We try and ask every single morning. Hey, what does your day look like? Every single evening. Hey, what does tomorrow look like? And just when we pass, Hey, what's going on? You know, just to kind of constantly check in because especially, I mean, being an entrepreneur it changes regularly. Like he could have a schedule one evening, but by the time he wakes up, Oh, this changed and this changed. And, and then, Oh, I had a phone call. I thought you were doing this, just kidding. This changed. And so just trying to constantly communicate.

One of the things about balance that I think is really helpful is knowing that we're both 100 percent committed.

And that was something that I felt like I, I came into this relationship so hard committed that it scared her at first, but it endeared me to her later because when I say I love you, I am here forever. She knows it. And that commitment is something that I think marriage is so key for, because if, if you have someone that's only partially committed, they're not fully there, they didn't fully commit. I mean, maybe they have a leg in the, in the pool, but they don't have their whole body. And. I like the analogy of you have to go a hundred percent on both ends. If you've got a bridge on one side and they go 95% and the other side goes 95%, that bridge is still gonna collapse.

Mm-Hmm, .

But if I go a hundred percent and then she goes a hundred percent, then thanks for being my, my my bridge. We can actually survive. And I think the difference between someone that gets divorced and someone that stays together, they have the same problems. Almost always you have the same problems.

It's, are you committed to solving them together? And I think that's one of the ways that we find, find balance. I love David A Bednar. He talks about balance is a myth. Because he's like, well, every element of your life is like a spinning plate and you get that one plate spin as fast as you can. You're like, all right, now you go to the next plate and you spin it and you get it going.

You're like, oh, there's a marriage and spin that plate. Oh, got to come back to this one and spin it again. And you just keep getting those, those plates spinning. But you're bouncing back and forth and you just have to be where you're at in that moment. And maybe you're spinning the marriage plate, maybe you're spinning the family plate, maybe you're spinning the work plate.

But you have to choose in that moment, because if you're trying to spin two plates at once, what happens? You break both the plates. So you have to like hold the stick and then you spin that plate and you make sure it's going and then You can do the next thing and I think part of that i'm not perfect at this guys.

I'm talking to myself, too but part of that is being intentional with your your mindset your skill set and your tool set in every Compartmentalized part of your life.

I think the other thing that helps is both of us recognizing that we're You Always a work in progress that neither one of us is like, no, I'm good at this.

You're the one that needs to be better. No, I know I've got this figured out. You're the one that needs to figure this out. Like remembering that both of us are trying and as good as we communicate, we can do better. As good as we're planning, we can do better as good as, and just kind of giving each other that, that grace that we are, okay, we failed this time, but we're trying.

Yeah. That's so good. There's a lot of gold nuggets in there.

I haven't taken notes because you guys dropped a lot of gold there and I want to do a quick recap in case anybody missed it. The first thing that Belinda said that resonated so much for me and for us, I think Was the fulfillment, the, that Brigham is lit up from the inside doing what he loves to do as opposed to feeling His light dimmed doing something he wasn't fulfilled with which I mean especially for you But for both of us coming out of our corporate jobs, We had that same feeling like we're unfulfilled like we had a lot of time to spend But the same situation as you, you weren't content in your life.

So there was that sort of discontent inside of you that would come out. When you're on your path, doing something that you love to be doing and feeling fulfilled in what you do, you're lit up from the inside and that's a contagious light that shines. Throughout all aspects of your life.

So I think that's almost like the foundation for creating the happy marriage, the happy family, the happy self is to feel that sense of contribution and fulfillment in what you're doing and you can bring that to everybody else. I thought that was a like a huge gold nugget of just awareness to kick things off.

The second thing I heard Belinda say was the communication, but specifically the check ins. We are giant fans of checking in. I love the morning check in, especially for business entrepreneurs because to your point, spoke in the wheel, like things change. And so what's the day look like? When are we going to get to connect over a walk? When are we going to get to do this today? What's your day look like? Just having a good sense of what the day looks like. So you've kind of got expectations set. And then the end of day check in I also love. It's my favorite one actually, the end of day check in.

Those check ins are important for the logistics and all the things, but they're also sort of like a secret message that, I care about what your day looks like, I want to make sure I'm involved in it, I care about how it went, I want to make sure you know that I care, like those check in questions, beyond just the actual infrastructure of communication, are the way to

Emotionally connect.

Emotionally connect and include each other in your days, and so I think those are so, so important.

The next thing I heard was from Brigham when he was saying the commitment. 100%. And having that, knowing that that person's there, they're committed.

So even when craziness happens, life comes at us fast, entrepreneurship comes at us fast. You can rest easy knowing that this part of the life or our relationship is, we've nurtured it. We've taken that, that opportunity to make sure that we're both committed and there for each other. And so that there's a less, added stress because you've taken that time to develop that foundation in your relationship.

So it helps other aspects of your life. You can now give more energy to, to your entrepreneurship or whatever it is because you know that Belinda's got your back.

Yeah. It's like this, this trust, it takes this weight off that like, I know they're there. Even if you're going through a season of difficulty or, some hard days, Maybe you don't agree on the path to get somewhere.

You have your North Star that you're trying to get to. You may not always agree every day on the exact route to take for that day. So some days are harder than others, but there's that intrinsic trust that They are there. He is there, she is there, no matter how we disagree on this, or no matter what the kids have done, that human is there for me no matter what happens, and I loved how you pointed out the difference between people who get divorced and who don't get divorced, we all have the same issue.

We all deal with the same stuff. It's the trust and the commitment to figuring out the way through. 'cause there is always a way through it. It's just

how committed are you?

How committed are you to figuring it out, to getting the help, to talking to the people. Like there people have what you want, that thriving marriage, that successful business. People have that. And if you're going through a season of difficulty, it's. How committed are you to getting through that season of difficulty and to the other side? Because there's always an other side if you're willing to be committed enough to put the work in to get there.

And so I loved that. And then I loved what you said around being where your freaking feet are. A lot of times we think our most important resource is our time, but our most important resource is actually our attention. So you can spend all the time together in the world, but if you're not actually being where your feet are, being present in the moment, giving your 100 percent attention, spinning one plate at a time, giving all your attention to that one plate, you're going to break the plate.

And so being in the moment with your kid. With your wife, with your business, wherever you happen to be, it's that dedicated attention. Like, that was liquid gold coming out of you. And then the last part from Belinda.

Was it liquid?

I don't know. Maybe it was a gold nugget. A little bit of spit

going out there, right?

That was probably from me, right?

The last thing I heard Belinda say was you're both works in progress and that you share the accountability. You share the need for growth. You share grace with each other.

Offering each other the benefit of the doubt.

100%.

Yeah. Knowing that you're both trying, you're both doing the absolute best you can.

Showing up as your best selves every day. What your best is on that day. The best we have for that day. And just knowing that that person is, is, is showing up as best they can. And yeah, they're human beings. They make mistakes and just offering that grace is so important.

I share a quick pattern. Interrupt,

of course. Okay. So I get distracted very easily. Right. And this week alone, I was playing pickleball twice. One of the times where we had a communication breakdown I forgot to tell my wife, I was going to go play pickleball after the gym because I didn't think to tell her, which is.

Don't do that, but I was playing for I was gonna be like an hour. It ended up being like two and a half and I mean it happens pickleball is fun. It's so fun. It's so much fun I know and I was I was focused on just crushing it. I was doing really well and But Belinda is on the ball and she calls me. She's like, what are you doing?

You need to get to work. You need to freaking focus on things. I was like, Oh, I've been exercising slash playing pickleball for four hours total. Cause I went to the gym and then I went and played pickleball. Yeah. I need to get to work today. I should probably do that now. So sometimes in those little breakdowns and communication, you have these little takeaways.

And now when I go play pickleball, I text her, can I go play pickleball please?

Not even asking permission. Just in a check in.

I guess not asking permission.

Letting me know.

Yeah. Let her know. Do those little check ins.

Yeah.

One of the check ins I think is really fun with us that we do every single day. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. As long as we don't forget, like most of the time.

Isn't that how it always is? I do it all the time. I do it all the time,

except for when I don't. So, with the exception of the exceptions, we do it all the time.

At 11. 11 we will text where, like one of us, whoever remembers first, will say, Hey, I love you. In whatever way we can and that's one of those things that has meant the world to me I mean it it sometimes takes five seconds but if she gets a little text from me or I get a text from her it means the world because Yes, we we said we loved each other when we were married.

It doesn't ever hurt to say I love you There's zero bad things that will come from that.

That time that 11 11 time is something that kind of became a thing because of Brigham's family. If either of us sees that time I know you have an alarm set on your phone generally to go off at that time But it's just kind of and I love you reminder, I guess.

I'll give you the context for that. My my brother who passed away a few years ago he used to write a lot of poems and He had schizophrenia, he did have some challenges as far as being able to associate with other people in his later years. And one of the things I thought was very endearing with his poetry was anytime there was an L, he would put a 1.

And his expression, unconditional love, Unconditional love has four Ls in it. So at 1111,

unconditional love to all.

Unconditional love, love to all. Thank you. Yes. I can spell . Unconditional love to all

has four Ls. It has four L

1111, and that was one of his poems, and it became more meaningful at 11, 11 to say, I love you because of that little expression.

The way that Brad shared it with me, he shared it with our family, he shared it with anybody that he was around at 11 11 every single day. And it doesn't matter if you even know him. If you say, hey, I love you to a stranger, what's the worst they're gonna say? Like, weirdo? You're like, yeah, that's fine.

Right? But, it means something to us. And it's been something we're doing. Sorry, I didn't mean

to get off course. You're good. No, you're

good. Hey, we're on the road to life right now, and sometimes the detours are the most fun parts. They usually are. I agree. Speaking of detours, oh, I was thinking about a story that we should share because I have never shared it online and it's tragic, but also really funny.

Do you remember when my aunt passed away and I drove separate from you to the funeral?

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh

is the correct answer. This is Linda's

like, oh no.

Oh!

It was just, it was just a very long day. It's the worst

road story we ever heard. We've ever experienced, I think. So here it goes. You ready?

Cause it was a hot summer day. It was really, I think it's related ish. Cause it was like a hundred degrees outside. We were driving maybe even like 110, but it was so hot. My, my hands.

Separately because we had to pick up a car from the shop on the way.

Yeah. Cause it got fixed. Anyway we drove it about 30 miles.

And the car that was fixed, they forgot to put oil back in it. So when that happens, a car without oil is like a human without water. It kind of like shrivels up and then smoke happens and like, like flames. Anyway, it, it like boiled the, the water and all the different things are in. I don't even know what all those fluids are called.

I'm not a mechanic guy, but it was boiling and it was steaming. And we're like, I killed the car. I don't, I don't, we

were on the way to a funeral. And so I get

there, I will pick you up. We will keep going. We'll get it. We'll figure it out on the way home. We're gonna be late

So we pull over in spanish fork and i'm just waiting until belinda gets there and i'm fuming almost like that car's gonna say I Paid them so much money to get my car fixed and it's not fixed and I was frustrated They were driving in our car and it's a hot day.

I think I remember this because it was so like Sticky hot and waiting. It was probably only a half an hour that I was waiting in the sun, sitting in a hot car is actually hotter than sitting outside the car. So I was not even in the car, but I was drenched in sweat, going to a funeral, smelling to high heaven.

I get in the car and she's like, had a rough time? And I was like, yeah, a really rough time. But the air conditioning helps a little bit. I'm still like pitted out in my, in my suit and stuff, which is gross, but didn't have a change of clothes. We, we get almost to the exit and this car starts like having these awful groaning sounds.

And I was like, what is wrong with our vehicle? And it just like, it. I I, I don't know. We may not be exit. We may not be exit, but the battery gets done.

It just like it gave up the ghost, it died and we had to just keep pulling over and starting the car. And then it would light up for a second. Like, okay, we can do this.

And then we'd get on the road and it, and then the car would die. And what happens when the battery dies is the. The steering is no longer power steering. So it's like, you're like going really hard. So we got over to the side and the last two or so miles were extremely stressful, but we get into this gas station about 10 miles from where we're supposed to go.

And. The funeral's already started. So we know no people that are close by that can come help. I mean, we did have

family at the funeral. Yeah, we had like 50 people at the funeral,

but it's a funeral. They are not looking at their phone. So I'm calling every single person I can think of. I'm texting them.

Hey, we're stranded here. Can anyone come get us? We're in a tiny little town that doesn't have good reception to like even get an Uber or something. We have all our kids with us. So it's sweaty and we're tired and frustrated. And then after that breakdown. My sister in law, she's like, Oh, I saw your 12 texts.

I'll come pick you up. We need to get two trips back there. We miss most of the funeral. And. After we get our car situation figured out or there at the funeral, I'm like, that was an awful experience. My aunt had died. Both cars had passed away as well. It was just, is that the wrong way to say it? They, they had given up the ghost.

However you want to say it, both cars were no longer with us.

The vehicle

had gone and we're like, how do we get home now? Because, shoot. Literally we're hours from home and nobody else planned on having passengers. And we, we had a lot of kids, like divvy up the kids, like you're playing Uno or something,

trying to figure out this situation. It's like, it's kind of late now. And we just drop our car off at this random mechanic shop. And we're like, hopefully they can fix it tomorrow. Cause nobody's there right now. I call the guy at their late number. They're like, yeah, we'll get to it by Monday. I was like, Oh, okay.

And we drive home. And on the way home, I, I just have this idea. I was like, well, if, if this is the worst that it can get, man, life's going to be great because it wasn't, it wasn't that bad in the moment. Awful, absolutely awful, sweaty, drenched, smelly missed the nice parts of the funeral and got the sad parts of the funeral.

And man, sometimes life, life's you in a way that. You have both your cars break down and everything feels like it is just broken. But after the funeral, on our drive home, we all got home, we were healthy, we had our kids, nobody was hurt. Literally, the cars died, but we were fine. And a lot of times it's the way we think about those situations.

That dictate whether or not it's good or bad and now I would say that's a really funny story That was awful to live through but when you have time and pain that turns into a good story.

Yeah,

and That's part of the way that I think that marriage is is You will have moments where your cars break down where you feel like everything is going against you

But

then you look around and you're like, I'm still with the one I love.

I'm here because I chose to be here and I'm committed to being on this road of life, even though both of our cars broke down and now we have to hitchhike like hobos. It's okay. Because you have each other because we have each other and we're just like holding hands, which I get no

So true, it's all about perspective right that could that day could have been so much It was bad as it was but could have been so much worse if both of your attitudes were any Different than what they were that day going with the flow made it so much easier than had you been at each other. Stress happens and it's easy sometimes to, fall below and not rise above, let that impact you and take you completely off course.

So it's a really cool story.

Yeah. It's funny. Cause I was thinking when you started this story, I'm like, Ooh, I want to ask them. How they get through the hard days, right? Because this is a hard day that they are experiencing. And entrepreneurship, it brings hard days.

Marriage brings hard days. We, we all have just days that are harder. How do you two sort of pull each other through those hard days so that they don't cascade?

When I was younger, I used to think that having a good life means it was good days.

Having a good marriage means we don't fight having good kids means they don't do things wrong. And recognizing over time that just, just because bad things happen, just because you have a bad day. Doesn't mean it's all bad and there's going to be both of those things. And sometimes listening to personal development things, I sometimes would get the idea that they have it figured out and they can stop themselves before, when I think a lot of times what it actually is, is we make a mistake, but we're aware that we made a mistake so that we can do better next time, even if we just don't make as bad of a mistake. And then over time slowly get better.

I think with those bad days, it's, it's taking those little steps and going, Hey, I maybe didn't handle this as well as I could have. How can we talk about it honestly and learn how to do better next time? Because if we just shove it under and go, it was fine. But if we actually go, no, I didn't handle this well.

Why didn't I handle this well? And how can I do it better next time? Because we, I mean, we definitely, I definitely fly off the handle sometimes. And I. Trying to figure out what those, what those things are.

One of the ways that I think we deal with hard times is. We focus on what are the controllables or the things we actually can do. I've, I've heard multiple people. Most of the time it was in a sports reference, but even in personal development, if you can control the controllables, the things that you have an ability to move the needle on.

Then what are you worrying about all the other things? Worry is just praying for your problems to come true Heard Greg say that i've heard so many people say that and you think about the things that we focus on in large And the things that we want if if we are always focusing on those those challenges, they're going to persist in our life They're going to stick around but if we say oh, here's the challenge.

What are my other obstacles? How do I get around this and we focus on a solution rather than just the challenge? Then we will find ways around it. This is one of the things we have in common. We were actors in theater and one of the things that's so important as an actor is you have this intention.

You're like, hey, I need to go from this side of the stage to this side. Well, how do I motivate that? Now, what's the obstacle that's stopping me from going from here to there? All right. What are tactics that I can use to get over that obstacle, through that obstacle, around that obstacle, use the obstacle to catapult and jump over it.

There's so many different ways that you can do that. You can use the obstacle because the way to what you want is through around or using that obstacle. And that's where your choices come in. Go ahead.

I think accepting the obstacle for what it is. A lot of times I think there, there are bad days that I have where I just get caught up in the obstacle and that it's there and that, well, I don't want to go over it.

I don't want to go around it. I don't want to go through it. I don't want like, I don't want the obstacle to be there. Okay. It is. So, deal with it. Congrats.

You stated it. We don't either. But just acknowledging that it is what it is. And, and being okay with that.

You're not judging yourself for having the obstacle, saying, I have faith that we will get through this together.

Because together you can do so much more than you can as an individual. There's a synergy that happens. There's not like one plus one equals zero. Two in a marriage one plus one equals six in our case, but Not six kids No, it's good. No, six total, but it really does come down to how do you multiply your efforts is you do things together?

Like I remember teaching history There was this this example of an Indian chief who took an arrow and he like snaps the arrow to his braves He's like individuals by themselves are easy to break You But then he goes and he gets all of these arrows and he brings them together. And I don't have enough to actually make this point make sense, but they're going to pretend like this, a ton of arrows.

He's like, but all of us together are unbreakable. And I think together, well, that was six. It was like an exact six. I think, bam, all of us together, we can, we can be unbreakable. But individually were very easily broken.

I hope

that analogy made sense with the stand ins of my colored pencils and my markers rather than arrows.

Yes, that's the idea. It was perfect.

Well, it was perfect. I, I think those are really important reframes and perspectives. Belinda's starting it off with reframing what does good even mean? What is, what is a bad day? What is a good kid? What is a good marriage?

Resetting expectations for yourself on your life is so important because to your point, a good marriage does not mean you never fight. In fact, probably the opposite, right? if you never disagree with someone, it's not probably because you're so in sync, and you're so aligned, and everything is so perfect.

It's probably because one of you is not actually sharing who you actually are, because no two people are identical regardless of who they are.

Can I share a theatrical example really quick? Yes! At the end of this.

Okay.

Okay, so Nora and Torvald. What was the name of that play? Anyway,

Doll's House?

Doll's House, yes. So The Doll's House by George Bernard Shaw. They're Is this awful relationship that is, is brought up in this amazing play. This lady, she's basically caged her entire life. She can't have candy, she can't go out and do different things. She is Torvald's little bird.

She's his doll. His doll.

In the doll's house. Playing mom, playing life. Yeah.

And they never really have Any communication that is more than surface level. They have kids they have a model marriage It looks beautiful on paper. They're in a gorgeous house. Everything looks perfect however, the undercurrent of their relationship is indifference They're not connected and you see the way that Nora responds to Torvald in comparison to how Nora talks to her best friend who she's hiding how she goes and she gets treats, these little candies and she's hiding who she is and how she wants to speak out.

So at the very end of this, they break up. And in that argument is the first time that they are able to actually have a conversation. She's like, this is the first time you've spoke to me as a human being and not as your little bird or as your little doll. And I think in marriage, the way that you communicate and the way you actually have heart to heart conversations, that is what is going to make you successful.

Oh, I think it's Henrik Ibsen, isn't it? Dang it! I

was double checking. I was like, I don't think it's Berger and Shah. Thank you so much.

I was, I just had that thought too. I was like, no, that's an Ibsen. Thank you. You're welcome. See, this is how we're connected. That's why I was like, I don't think it's Shah.

I was like, I don't think it's Shah.

Thank you for correcting me. You didn't even have to look it all the way up. I remembered it though. But Sorry for the misquote. It wasn't George Bernard Shaw, although there is some really good things that he wrote, right? You don't have to be perfect, but one of the things I've learned from that story is have real conversations.

They could have saved their marriage early on. If they actually communicated and opened up and he treated her and she treated him The way they wanted to be treated and they were equal help meets They were people that were in it together rather than you're my doll and now I'm gonna do all my business I'm gonna do all the other stuff That's not how our relationship is and if it ever is like that I want her to you know, take the doll and hit me with it So wake up and be like Brigham.

You're being dumb. I'm like, I know Sorry, sorry and we fix it

Yeah, it's such a. Such a good point, and so many people shy away from conversations where you're being yourself, right, where you're sharing some of that stuff that either you're afraid of, or you're, you know, you're uncomfortable with, those are, those are, that creates discomfort, those are uncomfortable conversations sometimes if you're sharing something that maybe you know is not going to be agreed with, like you're sharing a part of yourself that maybe you're a bit nervous of sharing, like those, Those are uncomfortable conversations, but they're so necessary because if we in a marriage avoid that uncomfortable conversation in the moment and not share that thing, so therefore we're hiding a little piece of us, we're covering a piece of ourselves, we're putting up a wall, like a brick in the wall between us every single time we choose short term comfort, which really, in the end, is going to create long term dysfunction in your marriage, because, when you get to that point where you're not sharing any of yourself, because that's the road you head down, right? Every time you decide to not share the thing, not have that momentarily uncomfortable conversation, another brick, another brick, another brick, until you're fully Walled off and then that conversation becomes so impossible in your brain to have that you've got a completely Dysfunctional communication between you where you're only talking about the surface level when to your point Marriages can be saved by being willing to have that uncomfortable Argument sometimes that we just we just don't want to have because we're so afraid of that Discomfort in the moment that we're willing to live with the discomfort of that For for long periods of time. Of like that idea of getting to the bottom of something

You know if if you're only having the surface level get cleaned as far as like a I'm gonna give an analogy of like a A vessel maybe like a cup if you only clean the outside of it You drink that cup and suddenly it's kind of gross.

I got, we, we have our daughter learning how to, you know, do the dishes right now, a little tricksy. She's adorable. Sometimes she, she misses little parts. There's little bits of food and we're like, okay, wash this again before I drink from it. But if you get to the bottom of things and you actually take care of the root source, the issue, you clean it up, then you can have confidence you're moving forward in the right direction, but if you don't you take that off the shelf. You're like, do I dare drink out of this? Okay. Yeah Right hesitancy there. Yeah, but if you actually deal with the challenge There's competence that we're moving forward.

Yeah, I love it

You talked about a relationship, not so much a rule, but like a tradition that you have with the 11 11 and texting each other wherever you are in the world, I love you. Do you have any relationship rules or any non negotiables in your marriage?

We do. We don't joke about divorce.

We have a lot of friends that it's a point of joking or anytime they're even slightly upset. It's, Oh, don't make me move out. We don't joke that way. That's off the table.

And that comes out of the commitment. And we've been doing that for 13 years.

We've been very consistent. I mean, I have lots of people in my life that joke about it and I don't laugh at those jokes intentionally because what you laugh at, what you say, Oh man, that's so funny, actually gets encouraged as far as behavior. And for us, we, we don't want to joke about marriage. We we're okay to joke about funny things But that's one of those that we're we're in it for forever we chose to say You are mine and I'm yours.

I I am in this and even when it's hard when you're driving on a back road and You know, your wife says, Hey, just take the main road and you, you're like, it's not even that muddy. It's fine. And you take the back road and you get your car stuck for a couple of hours and you're covered in mud. You're committed even in the muck and you have your cousin in the back seat and her friend and you have to now wash the inside of your car, all those little experiences.

And if you guys want the rest of that story, go to my podcast, level up with you guys. But Oh my goodness. Listen to each other and be committed because she knows way better than I do on most things And because we're committed to each other even when it's hard It's sometimes very difficult like when I make a stupid choice to say I chose him I I know it's hard for her, but she chose me and she loves me and I appreciate it.

So I don't know if anyone missed that but Brigham has told that story on his podcast It was actually the episode that we were on episode. What number was that? 13 14. It was I

don't know It was early for

craig and yeah Yeah, it's the leveling up podcast Brigham Blackham

back in February ish 2024 or something like that.

Go

look for it Yeah, it's a cool story. He's got lots of cool stories on that podcast. So go check it out I

love that rule.

Yeah, that's amazing. I

think that's a very Simple thing people can start to do. The end of our marriage is just not funny. Like, it's not going to happen.

We don't want to joke about it. Let's just remove that from the universe. I think that's a very simple strategy anyone can start right now that will actually make a big difference just from the perspective shift. So Thank you. That was a, that was a really great little tip. Yeah, absolutely. Brigham, why don't you tell us a little, you just brought up the podcast.

business? Tell us a bit more about you, the business owner.

Absolutely. So I am focused in on growing this leveling up with Brigham Blackham podcast. I, I really love interviewing business owners and sharing patterns of progress, sharing tools, insights personal development and business development ideas to help You get from where you are to the next level.

And as I've been doing this, I really started in in 2019 with my first short term rental. And ever since, since then, I've been focusing on how do I get a little better? What is the thing that's going to move the needle? Where's that progress that is needing to happen? And I started off in short term rentals.

I've got nine of them right now, which is. is still the thing that's sustaining us, but I'm growing my business as a speaker. So I, I'm happy to to get on more stages and just booked one yesterday, which is kind of exciting, but it all comes down to, I want to help top leaders be the very best versions of themselves to live into their potential and to create opportunities, not just for myself, but for other people to live into who they want to be.

And I'm doing that through speaking. I'm going to be writing books. I, the only book I've written so far besides our little project that we did together was leveling up your social media. It's a little 36 page book about how to grow your social media and your marketing. And I, I'm going to keep writing a lot more, keep speaking a lot more and give as much opportunity as I can for people to take some of the thoughts that I've, I've been able to have in some of the experiences and the stories and be able to apply to their own lives.

And that's, that's my passion. So I'm going to keep doing it. And I have so much fun doing it that I hope it's infectious. Cause one of the things that I love about enthusiasm is one of the only emotions that is completely transferable. Yeah, so I'm gonna confirm it

is infectious I think that people can really I know I can See the passion like I can hear it.

I can see the passion that you have for it. So where can people find you Brigham?

Yeah.

Yeah

YouTube is probably the fastest way to find me or Facebook, but Brigham Blackham You go there, you can find it. That's where my podcast is hosted, but it's also on like, I heart radio and Spotify and wherever you listen to podcasts.

If there's not a platform that I'm on, feel free to DM me on Facebook. And I'm happy to figure out how to get that to go there, but that's the easiest place to find me.

And we'll include some links. I've got, I've got your links to all your social handles. I'll, we'll put those in the show notes too. This has been fantastic.

And I want to, I want to ask one last question before, before we let you leave. I want to know from each of you, what does an exponential relationship mean to you?

She's going to, she's going to be that caboose that just finishes. Yes. All right. No, go ahead. All right. So an exponential relationship for me is having a celestial marriage, to think celestial. It's that idea that we're not just here for mortality. We have this opportunity to be together forever.

Our commitment with our family. I think of A song my mom wrote that was based in in an experience that she had in our temple, where there's a mirror in front of her and a mirror behind her. And she is one link, just like you are one link. Looking in that mirror, when you have two mirrors that go next to each other, you see eternity.

Eternity as far as your progeny and those where you came from as well. And because we are a link in that chain, we don't want to break that chain. We want to stay together. And Having an eternal marriage, that's where exponential growth comes. Because if you keep that chain solid, you know, your kids can rely on you.

There's a confidence there. Then they'll link to you and their kids will link to them. And as you stay linked, that has an exponential growth. That's what it means to me.

That's beautiful. Thanks, Brigham.

I think it was an exponential relationship. I I kind of think about when we met and how he brought up that That it kind of scared me at first.

but you guys said that, you know, that excitement and that enthusiasm kind of endeared him to me over time. That when he first said he loved me, one of my biggest concerns was, I was like, how do you know, how do you know that how, and I, cause I didn't, I said, I really like you, but how, how can I know, how can I know?

And it was a question that I. I pondered for a long time with our on and off before he left and then us writing. And I kind of realized over time that the thing that was the most important to me was that I could count on him, that that commitment was there, that I knew even though as I struggling through my feelings and figuring out where I was and up and down, he was there the whole time.

And that I knew no matter what happened, no matter what bad days I had. any of those things, I know he's not going to turn around and leave on me because I have a bad day or because I make a mistake. And so that to me is a relationship, an exponential relationship, where both of us know that we're going to be holding hands the whole time.

Amazing.

I love it. Love it.

Thank you for that.

Thank you both. This was an amazing episode. I think there's so much gold in this episode.

Thank you. I feel really incredibly blessed and grateful that you are both willing to spend the time with us and share your story and share your wisdom.

Because one last funny story before we sign off is when you and Brigham were texting back and forth about coming on to the show, I had a very big laugh when Brigham sent a voice memo of his conversation. So Oh, I totally sent Brigham. Oh, you didn't know. Okay. This is a funny story for everybody. So Brigham you know, he says, I'm in,

let me check with Belinda.

And, and so he goes, he goes and he records the conversation. So what, what should I tell them? Are you in? And, and, well, I, not, I'm not quoting verbatim, but something to the effect of tell them I'm open to it, but it's not my wheelhouse or not my cup of tea. It's not my strength, but I'm open to it.

Brigham, Gets immediately into the mic, she didn't say no, we're in!

And so I just thought that was funny.

It was, it was really funny. I thought you only said that ending part.

Oh, that's funny. Yeah, I totally recorded the whole thing, so it was good. True story. True story. True story.

Oh, thank you. Both of you, but especially Belinda, I know this was outside your comfort zone.

Yes. Because you had so much helpful important strategies, self reflections lessons to share that I think will really help a lot of people and so a congratulations You nailed it and be huge. Thank you. It was great.

Thank you.

It was an honor to be on here. Thank you so much guys. Love you. Yeah. Love you more

and that's it for this episode of the Road to Life podcast. So thank you so much for listening and we will catch you in the next episode. If you want to continue the conversation, join our free Facebook group at Facebook. com slash groups slash traveling the road of life.

We can't wait to see you in there.

And if you loved today's episode, because Brigham and Belinda did Bring the heat, then we'd be so honored if you'd share it with a friend who also needs it. And thanks so much for listening. We will catch you next time. You've got this. Bye. ?

Yeah.

Yeah

YouTube is probably the fastest way to find me or Facebook, but Brigham Blackham You go there, you can find it. That's where my podcast is hosted, but it's also on like, I heart radio and Spotify and wherever you listen to podcasts.

If there's not a platform that I'm on, feel free to DM me on Facebook. And I'm happy to figure out how to get that to go there, but that's the easiest place to find me.

And we'll include some links. I've got, I've got your links to all your social handles. I'll, we'll put those in the show notes too. This has been fantastic.

And I want to, I want to ask one last question before, before we let you leave. I want to know from each of you, what does an exponential relationship mean to you?

She's going to, she's going to be that caboose that just finishes. Yes. All right. No, go ahead. All right. So an exponential relationship for me is having a celestial marriage, to think celestial. It's that idea that we're not just here for mortality. We have this opportunity to be together forever.

Our commitment with our family. I think of A song my mom wrote that was based in in an experience that she had in our temple, where there's a mirror in front of her and a mirror behind her. And she is one link, just like you are one link. Looking in that mirror, when you have two mirrors that go next to each other, you see eternity.

Eternity as far as your progeny and those where you came from as well. And because we are a link in that chain, we don't want to break that chain. We want to stay together. And Having an eternal marriage, that's where exponential growth comes. Because if you keep that chain solid, you know, your kids can rely on you.

There's a confidence there. Then they'll link to you and their kids will link to them. And as you stay linked, that has an exponential growth. That's what it means to me.

That's beautiful. Thanks, Brigham.

I think it was an exponential relationship. I I kind of think about when we met and how he brought up that That it kind of scared me at first.

but you guys said that, you know, that excitement and that enthusiasm kind of endeared him to me over time. That when he first said he loved me, one of my biggest concerns was, I was like, how do you know, how do you know that how, and I, cause I didn't, I said, I really like you, but how, how can I know, how can I know?

And it was a question that I. I pondered for a long time with our on and off before he left and then us writing. And I kind of realized over time that the thing that was the most important to me was that I could count on him, that that commitment was there, that I knew even though as I struggling through my feelings and figuring out where I was and up and down, he was there the whole time.

And that I knew no matter what happened, no matter what bad days I had. any of those things, I know he's not going to turn around and leave on me because I have a bad day or because I make a mistake. And so that to me is a relationship, an exponential relationship, where both of us know that we're going to be holding hands the whole time.

Amazing.

I love it. Love

it.

Thank you for that.

Thank you both. This was an amazing episode. I think there's

so

much gold in this episode.

Thank you. I feel really incredibly blessed and grateful that you are both willing to spend the time with us and share your story and share your wisdom.

Because one last funny story before we sign off is when you and Brigham were texting back and forth about coming on to the show, I had a very big laugh when Brigham sent a voice memo of his conversation. So Oh, I totally sent Brigham. Oh, you didn't know. Okay. This is a funny story for everybody. So Brigham you know, he says, I'm in,

let me check with Belinda.

And, and so he goes, he goes and he records the conversation. So what, what should I tell them? Are you in? And, and, well, I, not, I'm not quoting verbatim, but something to the effect of tell them I'm open to it, but it's not my wheelhouse or not my cup of tea. It's not my strength, but I'm open to it.

Brigham, Gets immediately into the mic, she didn't say no, we're in!

And so I just thought that was funny.

It was, it was really funny. I thought you only said that ending part.

Oh, that's funny. Yeah, I totally recorded the whole thing, so it was good. True story. True story. True story.

Oh, thank you. Both of you, but especially Belinda, I know this was outside your comfort zone.

Yes. Because you had so much helpful important strategies, self reflections lessons to share that I think will really help a lot of people and so a congratulations You nailed it and be huge. Thank you. It was great.

Thank you.

It was an honor to be on here. Thank you so much guys. Love you. Yeah. Love you more

and that's it for this episode of the Road to Life podcast. So thank you so much for listening and we will catch you in the next episode. If you want to continue the conversation, join our free Facebook group at Facebook. com slash groups slash traveling the road of life.

We can't wait to see you in there.

And if you loved today's episode, because Brigham and Belinda did Bring the heat, then we'd be so honored if you'd share it with a friend who also needs it. And thanks so much for listening. We will catch you next time. You've got this. Bye. .

You're being dumb. I'm like, I know Sorry, sorry and we fix it

Yeah, it's such a. Such a good point, and so many people shy away from conversations where you're being yourself, right, where you're sharing some of that stuff that either you're afraid of, or you're, you know, you're uncomfortable with, those are, those are, that creates discomfort, those are uncomfortable conversations sometimes if you're sharing something that maybe you know is not going to be agreed with, like you're sharing a part of yourself that maybe you're a bit nervous of sharing, like those, Those are uncomfortable conversations, but they're so necessary because if we in a marriage avoid that uncomfortable conversation in the moment and not share that thing, so therefore we're hiding a little piece of us, we're covering a piece of ourselves, we're putting up a wall, like a brick in the wall between us every single time we choose short term comfort, which really, in the end, is going to create long term dysfunction in your marriage, because, when you get to that point where you're not sharing any of yourself, because that's the road you head down, right? Every time you decide to not share the thing, not have that momentarily uncomfortable conversation, another brick, another brick, another brick, until you're fully Walled off and then that conversation becomes so impossible in your brain to have that you've got a completely Dysfunctional communication between you where you're only talking about the surface level when to your point Marriages can be saved by being willing to have that uncomfortable Argument sometimes that we just we just don't want to have because we're so afraid of that Discomfort in the moment that we're willing to live with the discomfort of that For for long periods of time. Of like that

idea of getting to the bottom of something

You

know if if you're only having the surface level get cleaned as far as like a i'm gonna give an analogy of like a A vessel maybe like a cup if you only clean the outside of it You drink that cup and suddenly it's kind of gross.

I got, we, we have our daughter learning how to, you know, do the dishes right now, a little tricksy. She's adorable. Sometimes she, she misses little parts. There's little bits of food and we're like, okay, wash this again before I drink from it. But if you get to the bottom of things and you actually take care of the root source, the issue, you clean it up, then you can have confidence you're moving forward in the right direction, but if you don't you take that off the shelf. You're like, do I dare drink out of this? Okay. Yeah Right hesitancy there. Yeah, but if you actually deal with the challenge There's competence that we're moving forward.

Yeah, I love it

You talked about a relationship, not so much a rule, but like a tradition that you have with the 11 11 and texting each other wherever you are in the world, I love you. Do you have any relationship rules or any non negotiables in your marriage?

We do. We don't joke about divorce.

We have a lot of friends that it's a point of joking or anytime they're even slightly upset. It's, Oh, don't make me move out. We don't joke that way. That's off the table.

And that comes out of the commitment. And we've been doing that for 13 years.

We've been very consistent. I mean, I have lots of people in my life that joke about it and I don't laugh at those jokes intentionally because what you laugh at, what you say, Oh man, that's so funny, actually gets encouraged as far as behavior. And for us, we, we don't want to joke about marriage. We we're okay to joke about funny things But that's one of those that we're we're in it for forever we chose to say You are mine and I'm yours.

I I am in this and even when it's hard when you're driving on a back road and You know, your wife says, Hey, just take the main road and you, you're like, it's not even that muddy. It's fine. And you take the back road and you get your car stuck for a couple of hours and you're covered in mud. You're committed even in the muck and you have your cousin in the back seat and her friend and you have to now wash the inside of your car, all those little experiences.

And if you guys want the rest of that story, go to my podcast, level up with you guys. But Oh my goodness. Listen to each other and be committed because she knows way better than I do on most things And because we're committed to each other even when it's hard It's sometimes very difficult like when I make a stupid choice to say I chose him I I know it's hard for her, but she chose me and she loves me and I appreciate it.

So I don't know if anyone missed that but Brigham has told that story on his podcast It was actually the episode that we were on episode. What number was that? 13 14. It was I

don't know It was early for

craig and yeah Yeah, it's the leveling up podcast Brigham Blackham

back in February ish 2024 or something like that.

Go

look for it Yeah, it's a cool story. He's got lots of cool stories on that podcast. So go check it out I

love that rule.

Yeah, that's amazing. I

think that's a very Simple thing people can start to do. The end of our marriage is just not funny. Like, it's not going to happen.

We don't want to joke about it. Let's just remove that from the universe. I think that's a very simple strategy anyone can start right now that will actually make a big difference just from the perspective shift. So Thank you. That was a, that was a really great little tip. Yeah, absolutely. Brigham, why don't you tell us a little, you just brought up the podcast.

business? Tell us a bit more about you, the business owner.

Absolutely. So I am focused in on growing this leveling up with Brigham Blackham podcast. I, I really love interviewing business owners and sharing patterns of progress, sharing tools, insights personal development and business development ideas to help You get from where you are to the next level.

And as I've been doing this, I really started in in 2019 with my first short term rental. And ever since, since then, I've been focusing on how do I get a little better? What is the thing that's going to move the needle? Where's that progress that is needing to happen? And I started off in short term rentals.

I've got nine of them right now, which is. is still the thing that's sustaining us, but I'm growing my business as a speaker. So I, I'm happy to to get on more stages and just booked one yesterday, which is kind of exciting, but it all comes down to, I want to help top leaders be the very best versions of themselves to live into their potential and to create opportunities, not just for myself, but for other people to live into who they want to be.

And I'm doing that through speaking. I'm going to be writing books. I, the only book I've written so far besides our little project that we did together was leveling up your social media. It's a little 36 page book about how to grow your social media and your marketing. And I, I'm going to keep writing a lot more, keep speaking a lot more and give as much opportunity as I can for people to take some of the thoughts that I've, I've been able to have in some of the experiences and the stories and be able to apply to their own lives.

And that's, that's my passion. So I'm going to keep doing it. And I have so much fun doing it that I hope it's infectious. Cause one of the things that I love about enthusiasm is one of the only emotions that is completely transferable. Yeah, so I'm gonna confirm it

is infectious I think that people can really I know I can See the passion like I can hear it.

I can see the passion that you have for it. So where can people find you Brigham?

YouTube is probably the fastest way to find me or Facebook, but Brigham Blackham You go there, you can find it. That's where my podcast is hosted, but it's also on like, I heart radio and Spotify and wherever you listen to podcasts.

If there's not a platform that I'm on, feel free to DM me on Facebook. And I'm happy to figure out how to get that to go there, but that's the easiest place to find me.

And we'll include some links. I've got, I've got your links to all your social handles. I'll, we'll put those in the show notes too. This has been fantastic.

And I want to, I want to ask one last question before, before we let you leave. I want to know from each of you, what does an exponential relationship mean to you?

She's going to, she's going to be that caboose that just finishes. Yes. All right. No, go ahead. All right. So an exponential relationship for me is having a celestial marriage, to think celestial. It's that idea that we're not just here for mortality. We have this opportunity to be together forever.

Our commitment with our family. I think of A song my mom wrote that was based in in an experience that she had in our temple, where there's a mirror in front of her and a mirror behind her. And she is one link, just like you are one link. Looking in that mirror, when you have two mirrors that go next to each other, you see eternity.

Eternity as far as your progeny and those where you came from as well. And because we are a link in that chain, we don't want to break that chain. We want to stay together. And Having an eternal marriage, that's where exponential growth comes. Because if you keep that chain solid, you know, your kids can rely on you.

There's a confidence there. Then they'll link to you and their kids will link to them. And as you stay linked, that has an exponential growth. That's what it means to me.

That's beautiful. Thanks, Brigham.

I think it was an exponential relationship. I I kind of think about when we met and how he brought up that That it kind of scared me at first.

but you guys said that, you know, that excitement and that enthusiasm kind of endeared him to me over time. That when he first said he loved me, one of my biggest concerns was, I was like, how do you know, how do you know that how, and I, cause I didn't, I said, I really like you, but how, how can I know, how can I know?

And it was a question that I. I pondered for a long time with our on and off before he left and then us writing. And I kind of realized over time that the thing that was the most important to me was that I could count on him, that that commitment was there, that I knew even though as I struggling through my feelings and figuring out where I was and up and down, he was there the whole time.

And that I knew no matter what happened, no matter what bad days I had. any of those things, I know he's not going to turn around and leave on me because I have a bad day or because I make a mistake. And so that to me is a relationship, an exponential relationship, where both of us know that we're going to be holding hands the whole time.

Amazing.

I love it. Love

it.

Thank you for that.

Thank you both. This was an amazing episode. I think there's

so

much gold in this episode.

Thank you. I feel really incredibly blessed and grateful that you are both willing to spend the time with us and share your story and share your wisdom.

Because one last funny story before we sign off is when you and Brigham were texting back and forth about coming on to the show, I had a very big laugh when Brigham sent a voice memo of his conversation. So Oh, I totally sent Brigham. Oh, you didn't know. Okay. This is a funny story for everybody. So Brigham you know, he says, I'm in,

let me check with Belinda.

And, and so he goes, he goes and he records the conversation. So what, what should I tell them? Are you in? And, and, well, I, not, I'm not quoting verbatim, but something to the effect of tell them I'm open to it, but it's not my wheelhouse or not my cup of tea. It's not my strength, but I'm open to it.

Brigham, Gets immediately into the mic, she didn't say no, we're in!

And so I just thought that was funny.

It was, it was really funny. I thought you only said that ending part.

Oh, that's funny. Yeah, I totally recorded the whole thing, so it was good. True story. True story. True story.

Oh, thank you. Both of you, but especially Belinda, I know this was outside your comfort zone.

Yes. Because you had so much helpful important strategies, self reflections lessons to share that I think will really help a lot of people and so a congratulations You nailed it and be huge. Thank you. It was great.

Thank you.

It was an honor to be on here. Thank you so much guys. Love you. Yeah. Love you more

and that's it for this episode of the Road to Life podcast. So thank you so much for listening and we will catch you in the next episode. If you want to continue the conversation, join our free Facebook group at Facebook. com slash groups slash traveling the road of life.

We can't wait to see you in there.

And if you loved today's episode, because Brigham and Belinda did Bring the heat, then we'd be so honored if you'd share it with a friend who also needs it. And thanks so much for listening. We will catch you next time. You've got this. Bye.